272 Comments »

1. admin@falloutcentral.com said,

   June 28, 2007 at 2:16 pm

   Copies of the initial correspondence have been sent to the Pittsburgh Asian American Young Professional Association, The Japan Association of Greater Pittsburgh, Three Rivers Families With Children from China (TRFCC), and the Filipino American Association of Pittsburgh, Inc.

   *******************************************************

   Folks, here are copies of correspondence sent to Boardmembers of the FAAP from the Fox Chapel Superintendent & Principal. A lesson we need to take from this is that proactive social activism does work and does get results. If we don’t do it for our children and those APA in generations after us, who will?

   *******************************************************

   Dear Friends,

   Here’s the response from Fox Chapel Area School Superintendent. If you have not written to her yet, I encourage you to do so. The more emails the School District get, the louder the voice of reason will be.

   Rodel

   ———- Forwarded message ———-
   From: Anne Stephens
   Date: Jun 28, 2007 7:17 AM
   Subject: Re: Fox Chapel High School students anti-Asian racist Facebook group
   To:
   Cc: Ken Williams , Michael Hower , Jillian Bichsel , Matt Harris , Pat Clark

   We will work with this in any way that we can at the school. Our system blocks participation in the website that you have given us. Schools across the nation have not been successful in reacting to or punishing students for what they create outside of school. I am certain that the agencies you contact will tell you that. That doesn’t mean that we can’t be proactive and make certain that we teach respect for all cultures. We
   have been discussing this over the past few months. The middle school administrators have some good ideas and we will also work with our staff at the high school level to extend what we are doing concerning diversity issues. It is sad that students find this type of hurtful action entertaining or purposeful. Please know that the Fox Chapel Area School District will do as much as possible to assist in stopping this. Again,
   we can control what students do in school, but the law is not on our side when the actions they take are beyond the school day.

   Sincerely,
   Anne Stephens, Ph.D.

   *******************************************************
   Here’s the response from Fox Chapel High School Principal
   -Rodel

   ———- Forwarded message ———-
   From: Ken Williams
   Date: Jun 28, 2007 8:13 AM
   Subject: Re: Fox Chapel High School students anti-Asian racist Facebook group
   To:

   Dear :

   I sincerely appreciate you bringing this information to my attention. I am embarrassed for our high school that this needed to be done. We emphasize tolerance and acceptance issues with our students and it is
   disheartening that what we have done does not appear to be enough. The school will have a difficult time giving disciplinary consequences for activity that occurs outside of the school. That does not mean, however, that we cannot address the issue and inform those involved that we know of the activity.

   As we (the administration) are just learning of this, we will need to take a little bit of time to come up with a solution or means to address this in a way that does not violate school law but does communicate our strong disapproval of this behavior.

   As I viewed the names you included, I recognize them as students here. Surprisingly (and disappointing to learn) some of those students have been seen as exceptional students while here. I guess this shows that even some of the “best” kids can be insensitive and use poor judgement.

   Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention.

   Sincerely,
   Ken Williams
   Principal

2. NTG said,

   June 28, 2007 at 3:29 pm

   Dam….
   racism just won’t stop
   what’s wrong with these people.

3. admin@falloutcentral.com said,

   June 28, 2007 at 4:10 pm

   The Pennsylvania Inter-Agency Task Force on Civil Tension has designated this incident as Bias Report #2066.

   Members of the community are receiving responses from the district stating that the district is unsure about what it can do to prevent this type of public activity. They assert that they have a diversity committee composed by staff and students and are seeking suggestions on how to respond to this issue.

4. phark said,

   June 28, 2007 at 4:39 pm

   Welcome to AmeriKKKa!

   Asians are the new Blacks!

   On the bright side, maybe this will force more Asians to get active, grow some backbones and man up against YT now…

   all this White ass-kissing gets us is disrespect. Take a note from proud Blacks who piss all over Whites - that’s what gets RESPECT fellas! Not being “Mr. Ah-So Nice Guy.”

5. Rodel Quemado said,

   June 28, 2007 at 6:32 pm

   You can also contact these school officials:

   Superintendent: Anne Stephens 412-967-2400 Ext:2414 Anne_Stephens@fcasd.edu
   High School Principal: Ken Williams 412-967-2400 Ext:2433 Ken_Williams@fcasd.edu

   High School Web Site: http://www.fcasd.edu/Schools/high_school/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

6. Sino Kaya said,

   June 28, 2007 at 6:43 pm

   Billy Hagberg is one of 2 admin of the group. He plays football at school. Why not write to/call his coach as well:

   Deal, Bryan 412-967-2400 Ext:1401 Bryan_Deal@fcasd.edu

7. Marky said,

   June 28, 2007 at 6:49 pm

   The only point to ponder is whether to squash the site or to draw as much attention to it (and the individuals on it by name) as possible?

8. Sizwe_X said,

   June 28, 2007 at 8:05 pm

   Some other entries.

   Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 9:57pm on June 1st, 2007
   i regret nothing kiki

   Sarah Hanlon wrote
   at 8:45pm on May 10th, 2007
   instead of “im not sorry”
   it should be “i not sorry”
   haha, it only makes perfect sense!
   nice group!

   Morgan Masci (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 6:20pm on May 5th, 2007
   hahahaha wow!

   Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 10:35pm on April 24th, 2007
   we need some more members. everyone spread the word. just is here, and its named AAA

   Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 6:07pm on April 21st, 2007
   hear hear!

   ALex Irvin (East Carolina) wrote
   at 9:23pm on March 30th, 2007
   I really do hate asians My room mate is one and he passes his asian sicknesses to me all the time. They all need to go back where they came from

   Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 1:03pm on March 11th, 2007
   yess!!! i love this hahah i realy do hate chinese people well not all of them but most

   Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 1:56am on March 11th, 2007
   i made this like a year ago, now it finally has recognition

   Adam Borowski (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
   at 5:58pm on March 10th, 2007
   actually, hes a genius

   Lindsay Cowher (Ravenscroft) wrote
   at 5:13pm on March 10th, 2007
   billy…you are awful
   Message - Report

9. billy hagberg said,

   June 29, 2007 at 5:32 am

   i apologize to anyone who took offense to this group. I am not a racist, and believe one of the major hindrances in our country and world is ignorance based on race. This was simply a joke, based on the ludicracy of existing stereotypes. I never meant to incite any hatred, only to get a laugh. Obviously, this is not a humorous subject. I would like to stress, i take personal responsability for this action, and that no blame should rest on the school or anyone else involved. If anyone still has a problem with myself or the FORMER group, you can take it up with me. I have learned a lot from this incident, mostly about how painful insensitivity still is to many people.

10. billy hagberg said,

    June 29, 2007 at 5:34 am

    if i could say though, there are certainly much bigger threats to asians than a high-schooler on one website. In my opinion, if you are to make any changes, you need to recognize real threats, their sources, and appropriate courses of action. Why didn’t anyone ask me about this, instead of random authority figures in my life? I support your cause, but your methods certianly leave much to be desired

11. Bq said,

    June 29, 2007 at 6:30 am

    Yes, it’s uncomfortable, isn’t it, Billy? This “method” you speak of is called holding people accountable. Does anything in this post imply there aren’t “real threats”? The nonsense exemplified by that group fuels and contributes to them.

12. humpers said,

    June 29, 2007 at 9:21 am

    Billy, while there might be more serious issues for people to be worried about — like how your place in college is probably going to be taken by a chinese or indian foreign national like how everything is being outsourced — it’s still racially insensitive to make websites dedicated to anti-asian racism.

    while it seems trivial to you (as it stems from white privilege), these sorts of “microaggressions” eventually leads to other serious crimes like vincent chin and other racially motivated hate crimes.

    (please read the article linked in my name on microaggressions to get a sense of why your website is offensive.)

    you might consider it a joke, but like the previous doghouse incident has shown, racism is libel and not humorous to those on the receiving end. it’s rather insensitive for you to say you apologize if we’re offended but you aren’t sorry for your racism, but it’s another matter altogether to simply tell us off as needing to focus on something else.

    for that matter, why don’t you use your time on productive things that could’ve went to solving some of those serious matters you’ve alluded to instead of making racist comments on the internet?

    now there’s an idea that’s a win-win situation for both you and asian-americans.

13. sarah jane rhee said,

    June 29, 2007 at 2:43 pm

    I know that most of us Asians who heard about this may want Billy and the others in this Facebook group to be punished. I don’t believe that punishment is the answer. I believe that there is ample research that shows the inefficacy of punishment (see works by Alfie Kohn such as this: http://www.alfiekohn.org/books/bd.htm) in creating internal change in people. We don’t want people like Billy to merely stop exhibiting signs of racism because they’ll have their hands slapped if they do, until one day it just boils over into an act of violence. We want them to be changed from the inside.

    I believe that the only antidote to hate is compassion and love, and I’m not saying that to be preachy but because I am pragmatic and rational and that is the conclusion I have drawn from my life experiences and from observing the experiences of those such as MLK and Gandhi. I believe that such a response is stronger and more aggressive than retaliation and mere condemnation.

    So instead of looking for ways to ruin Billy’s and his friends’ lives, let’s find a way that leads to reconciliation and understanding and healing.

    Billy, if you are truly sorry that your “joke” ended up being hurtful to others, […] learn from this experience. Use it to educate your peers and stand up for others whose voices don’t normally get heard. You seem like a leader; use it for good. Who knows? Billy may end up being a Civil Rights Activist because of this experience. I can hope, right?

14. phark said,

    June 29, 2007 at 3:18 pm

    Billy,

    Did you know that rich Jews used to taunt Hitler and pelt him with erasers in class when he was a kid? Well, we all know where that led to… And as we’ve also seen from Columbine and Cho Seung-Hui, etc…mean-spirited “jokes” at another’s expense…are NOT very funny at all to the butt of such “jokes.”

    In fact, antilocution is step 1 on Allport’s Scale of Prejudice and can often lead to much more serious problems.

    “Scale 1, Antilocution Antilocution means a majority group freely make jokes about a minority group. Speech is in terms of negative stereotypes and negative images. This is also called hate speech. It is commonly seen as harmless by the majority. Antilocution itself may not be harmful, but it sets the stage for more severe outlets for prejudice.”

    Does it sound like you have fit that very definition?

    While you may feel some of us are being “oversensitive,” that hand’s been forced on us by repeated attacks like the ones you’ve made. By all accounts, Asian-Americans tend to be a very reserved “model minority” not instigating trouble with others. Our crime and social disturbance rates are all very low. But, where has this gotten us generation after generation? Still the perpetual butt of antilocution like yours. Well, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! When in ROME, do as the ROMANS DO. If Asians have to practice active ZERO-TOLERANCE against anti-Asian racism to get respect like every other minority group here - then by gad we’ll DO IT! But don’t blame us for that though - blame YOURSELVES. WE’RE FED UP with UNCALLED-FOR ATTACKS.

    NO MORE MR. NICE GUYS, SORRY!

15. Object lesson said,

    June 29, 2007 at 4:16 pm

    http://www.yourfoxchapel.com/

    http://biz.post-gazette.com/contact/comments_form.aspx?ID=37

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/helpdesk/phonelist.html
    opinion@tribweb.com

16. Rob said,

    June 29, 2007 at 10:44 pm

    Let me get this straight.

    Facebook has been known to delete pictures that they consider “risky” but this remains?

    Why do I keep hearing Horst Wessel Lied playing in the background?

17. While you were resegregating… « The Anti-Essentialist Conundrum said,

    June 29, 2007 at 10:46 pm

    […] Central has contact information up for asking the school officials what they can do about it. The principal says they’re good […]

18. kevin smith said,

    July 2, 2007 at 4:35 am

    billy hagberg for president

19. michael paradise said,

    July 4, 2007 at 5:06 pm

    why is my damn name on the list im not racist to asains. i have asian friends, this is not cool

20. Nicholas Bacco said,

    July 4, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    hey i just wanted to let you kno that i had no clue what it was about, but thats still no excuse. I am friends with several asians. I didnt have any intention to make any racial or harassment marks. I joined many things before even reading them, but i can assure you that i havent ment any harm wile joining this group. I didnt full understand what it was. I could understand why ur upset with this. I would just like to say im sorry because i really didnt understand what it was about so I hope u will forgive me

21. Anonymous said,

    July 4, 2007 at 10:19 pm

    just because you have asian friends, doesnt mean your not racist…the definition of racist is an irrational attitude directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics…tell me if that is not what has occurred here…

    again, racism isn’t a crime, but it’s just something that is a part of today’s world culture

22. humpers said,

    July 5, 2007 at 1:28 am

    “billy hagberg for president [of jagoffs]”

    i’m sure “yins guys” from pittsburgh know what that means.

23. humpey said,

    July 5, 2007 at 1:33 am

    why can’t you whiteboys come up with better excuses after the racist remarks?

    that’s the most contrite and unoriginal line “i have friends who are black/latino/asian/disabled/homosexuals/whales/muslims” and then proceed to make your racist remarks.

    we’re not stupid so please don’t patronize and insult our intelligence with “i have asian friends so I can’t be racist.”

    everybody is highly suspicious you even have any real friends at all, let alone asian ones. and if they’re asian (not that many in the pittsburgh area outside of the universities) then i’m sure they’re asian females who are “SOWs” and were already brainwashed by the racist amerikkkan media.

    face it, if falloutcentral and other asians didn’t fall for the racist doghouse jv&elvis jocks who have an asian wife, WTF makes you think we’ll fall for your BS “i have an asian friend” excuse/defense?

24. humpey said,

    July 5, 2007 at 1:40 am

    while racism isn’t a thought crime, racism can lead to physical assaults and murder in the case of vincent chin. and racists like billy’s little club of spoiled over-privileged kids have shown, racist remarks and thoughts can lead to other more nefarious acts.

    therefore, as students and minors they don’t have certain full civil rights afforded them when they are within the school grounds and should be given extra “guidance” that hopefully involves detention and other punitive actions.

25. humpeys gay said,

    July 5, 2007 at 4:09 am

    hey humpey, your gay.

    let the kids say sorry. they are trying to apoligize for something that they did while acting stupid (a typical thing for teenagers to do). you need to let it go. billy made a good point. focus on other things, these are a bunch of stupid high school kids. also, why are you trying to accuse a high school kid of having no friends, and certaintly no asians? accusing a high school kid of having no friends, very mature.

    o, and what the hell do you mean “You whiteboys”? isnt that racial in itself. do you go up to a group of black people and call them “you blackboys’? no, i dont think you do. if you are speaking out against stereotypes and race, at least dont contradict yourself by including racial things towards “whiteboys” in your response.

26. the teacher said,

    July 5, 2007 at 3:47 pm

    humpey…

    why wont you let the kids apoligize? they are high school kids acting stupid (a very typical thing for a high school boy to do). they made a mistake, they didnt realize what they were doing, and now, they are good kids, and feel bad about it so they are apoligizing. o and way to accuse a high school kid of not having any friends. seriously, really mature.

    and on the topic of racism and stereotypes, what do you mean by “you whiteboys”? do you address a group of black people as “you blackboys”? so let me get this straight humpey, you are writing a comment yelling at these kids for racism and stereotypes, yet you further the idea that people are different because of race by calling them “whiteboys”. hey genius, if you are against racism dont contradict yourself by including a racial comment in your comment speaking out against racism.

    and billy is right, why dont you focus on real threats, instead of focusing on a bunch of high school boys being stupid? i understand this was very innapropriate, and very offensive, but what do you want them to do? expell billy? he is one of the smartest kids at fox chapel area high school. he said he was sorry and had learned a lot from this experience. what else do you think should happen to him? i mean seriously these are kids, let them apoligize and move on!

27. Big D said,

    July 6, 2007 at 4:22 am

    That in itself is why we are what we are. The freedom to voice one’s opinion is a gift. The ability to speak freely without censorship is what helps shape our nation. However, one must be willing to accept responsibility, which Billy has done, and prepare for the consequences for his actions. These repercussions will reveal themselves in time.

    If you could expose all the racists, wouldn’t it give you a better ability to protect yourself?

    Let the consequeces begin. At least we have a preliminary list of Asian haters that can be distributed.

    Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Winston McCarty (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Anders Bergren (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Aaron Cichowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Adam Borowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Michael Paradise (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Kevin McKamish (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Greg Vaisleib (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Sam Caushaj (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Nick Horne (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Brian Skura (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Alec Christie (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Tom Stewart (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Nicholas Lombardi (Fox Chapel Area High School)
    Nick Bacco (Fox Chapel Area High School)

28. So sorry said,

    July 6, 2007 at 1:29 pm

    Hagberg said sorry.
    Paradise pleaded for innocence.
    Bacco pleaded for innocence and said sorry.

    What about the others?

    The AAA group at Facebook is no longer accessible. Post your comments here.

29. the teacher said,

    July 6, 2007 at 4:55 pm

    are you guys serious??? what do you think should happen to all of them?? for the kids who were asked to join a group, clicked accept like they always do, and did nothing else, what do you think should happen to them?? i mean seriously these are kids do you want each and every one of them to go to every asian person they know, get on their knees, and beg for forgiveness?? the ring leader said he was sorry, and the others had little to do with anything.

    you know what, you guys are right. lets title a bunch of high school kids as “asian haters” because they (in most cases unknowingly) joined a group which was meant for a joke. lets for life not forgive them even if they apoligize and realize how stupid they were. lets try to get them all in as much trouble as we possibly can. lets “expose all the racists” because anyone who clicked accept on a joke group is a dangerous threat, and it would give asians a better chance to “protect themselves”. lets arrest them all, throw them in jail to “protect asians”, and expell them from school. because of this, we should make sure they do not get into college. their entire lives should be ruined because of a stupid mistake they made. seriously, great plan-as big d said, lets let the consequences begin!

    i am not arguing that the group was not entirely innapropriate, because it clearly was

    but seriously, do you guys have nothing better to do than to focus on a bunch of stupid high school kids trying to be funny? you guys really cant find any better threats to asian americans, so you are just going to do whatever possibly to this group of high school boys?? they joined a group not thinking it was a big deal, and now they obviously realize it was a big deal. so what does trying to get them in more trouble do for you?

    please, for all our sakes…focus on some real threats

30. Calm down said,

    July 6, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    To “The Teacher”:

    These kids are old enough to speak for themselves. If they mistakenly joined a group and are innocent, then they certainly can speak for themselves.

    As for me, All I want to hear is the truth! Are they “real” kids attending a “real” School? Or, are they some “adults” pretending to be kids? If their names are listed by mistake, then they have all the right to clear their name here or elsewhere.

    It’s better if you teach these kids the exercise and consequence of exercising the First Amendment. They had their day in the internet, making fun of Asians. Now, other folks — some who are not even Asians — are having their day. Let the “fun” begins.

    Who’s asking that these kids beg for forgiveness on their knees?

31. the teacher said,

    July 6, 2007 at 7:55 pm

    of course they are real kids attending a real school. i know that because i attend the school along with them.

    and what are you talking about letting them speak for themselves? some of them have tried to by apoligizing and you guys are all just tearing them apart for that!

    nobody asked them to beg for forgiveness on their knees, but saying sorry and trying to disassociate themselves with this group obviously isnt enough for some people here, so wouldnt that be the next step?

    ok and you want to hear the truth? i will give it to you…these are real kids attending a real school (im not sure why that was ever in question). one kid at this school tried to be funny by starting a group on facebook (he has already apoligized and now realizes how hurtful his actions were). on facebook, when most kids are invited to a group they click accept without even really reading what the group is about. nobody realized the extent of how hurtful their actions were, and the mere fact that this has become such a big deal has taught them. i can assure you that there is no actual secret group in fox chapel devoted to the hatred of asians, and i can also assure you that these kids will think next time before they do something like this.

    you wanted the truth, so there it is. now everyones obsession with getting these kids in more trouble will hopefully stop (even though i realize that is very wishful thinking on my part)

32. adam borowski said,

    July 6, 2007 at 11:04 pm

    you guys made the choice of turning this issue of a website with jokes on it, into a racist, anti-asian controversy.

    now its going to turn into a whole new issue: one involving freedom of speech, and cencorship.

33. adam borowski said,

    July 6, 2007 at 11:18 pm

    humpey, you need to go back and edit your racist remarks before you accuse someone of being racist.

    “Amerikkka” “whiteboys”
    stereotype much? i think im gonna go call your high school and numerous civil rights groups because someone offended me on the internet

34. the teacher said,

    July 7, 2007 at 2:43 am

    very, very, very well put by adam borowski

35. wow said,

    July 7, 2007 at 2:53 am

    If the administrators at fox chapel actually take action on this, I will be extremely disappointed. The group was a rude joke, but was completely legal. The way you guys (from fallout central) dealt with this situation is MUCH more immature than the group itself.

36. "group member's aunt" said,

    July 7, 2007 at 5:51 am

    I have read enough of this nonsense ! My nephew is devestated by seeing his name posted on the internet associated with this all by a an honest mistake. He clicked and accepted onto this group by mistake and now is horrified by the fallout. No one talked to him about this or made any inquires prior to all these postings of names and letters. Very poor judgment in my opinion on the parts of the school admin. and whoever posted the names of these youths. Next time do a little investigating before you traumatize a teen unnecessarily.

37. "group member's aunt" said,

    July 7, 2007 at 5:55 am

    i like what “the teacher” said on 07/06/07 @ 7 55pm. !!!!!!!!!!!!

38. "group member's aunt" said,

    July 7, 2007 at 6:03 am

    My nephew had no idea what kind of group he had clicked onto and now he is horrified that is name is in print on the internet associated with this hate group. I wish the school would have done more investigating and spoke with the teens involved ( and the parents) before jumping the gun and assuming all kids on that facebook group belonged to AAA because THEY DIDN”T!

39. honestly... said,

    July 7, 2007 at 8:25 pm

    i think ur all gay, go find something better to do with ur live then try to ruin other peoples u hypocritical fucks

40. "white boy" said,

    July 7, 2007 at 8:27 pm

    so its ok if i call u yellow boy?

41. gaddfg said,

    July 7, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    i don’t like you guys

42. pimp masta fly said,

    July 7, 2007 at 8:30 pm

    sounds to me like u guys are just as racist if not more then us, with these threats and shit u hypocritical fucks

43. this is gay said,

    July 7, 2007 at 10:57 pm

    we should call a bunch of government agencies and notify everybody we can that these people are abusing freedom of speech. we should start websites about it, alert a bunch of agencies, and just generally try to get everyone in as much trouble as possible.

    that would be pretty sweet, we could do what these people did in reverse, and be very mature!

44. Clueless said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:13 am

    I like what phark said on 6/29 about antilocution which means a majority group freely makes jokes about a minority group… is also called hate speech… seen as harmless by the majority… sets the stage for more severe outlets for prejudice.

    Yes, the joke is totally lawful, well within the 1st Amendment rights. So, are the comments of humpey, the teacher, Adam, and mine… But there’s a big difference between lawful and ethical or moral. Is it ok to joke at the expense of others? Is it ok to joke so that the overall atmosphere sets the stage for more prejudice? When Billy created the AAA and posted those jokes, isn’t he simply exercising his freedom of speech? When it was removed, isn’t that some kind of censorship?

    Did you wonder if similar joke targeted the blacks or jews, what kind of responses you’ll be getting?

    I’m not interested in crucifying these stupid kids to suffer the consequence of their stupidity. I rather like to know why, in the first place, it was (and still is) ok for them to joke about certain group of people, thus “setting the stage for more severe outlets for prejudice”. I would like to know what “the teacher” would do to teach the kids so that antilocution will be curtailed in your school.

    To those who are clueless why it turned out to be a big deal: have you actually sought a dialogue with a minority and tried to understand why it’s a big deal?

    Guys, why are you blaming falloutcentral? Don’t shoot the messenger. Anyone is free to post their comments here. If you don’t like what you see, you can stop reading, post your rebuttal or make a real joke (might as well, we need to lighten up the discussion here… it’s too heavy for me.)

45. female senior @ FC said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:15 am

    humpey, you are making yourself look like an idiot. No one agrees with you, yet there are multiple people backing up what everyone else has to say.

    The truth is that even if they hated asians, they have every right too. They aren’t causing you any physical harm or threatening you in any way. Leave all these kids alone.

    And also, so what if you’re offended? Grow some balls. Everyone else in the world has to deal with crap being said about their sex, race, religion, body-type… whatever. i guarentee you fat people go through the same stuff, probably to a greater extent.

    There is no way you will ever be able to wipe out the hate. So instead why don’t you work on not taking such offense to it? Let real racists (not these kids) look stupid for their ignorant actions? It makes you look just as stupid if you jump right in with them. No one respects you for that.

46. Eve said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:17 am

    Adam: say sorry first and make amends BEFORE you ask someone else to do the same.

47. seriously. said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:49 am

    come on, i no most of these kids.
    first off, they go to a real school, and they’re all good kids.
    second off, most kids on facebook join groups without even reading what they’re about. they are not racist.

    and very well put adam, you’re right. humprey is being just as much racist to americans.
    none of this is fair, it was not illegal and billy said he was very sorry. they’re stupid teenagers.

    they’ll learn from this experience, punishing them will not help the matter, and the school should not have the right to punish them considering they were not in school and only go to that school, so what?

    yah, it was stupid to make the group in the first place, but they’re sorry, just listen to them.

48. Clueless said,

    July 8, 2007 at 3:46 am

    I like what phark pointed about antilocution which means a majority group freely make jokes about a minority group…is also called hate speech… seen as HARMLESS by the majority… but it sets the stage for more severe outlets for prejudice.

    My problem with the joke is that it reinforces the negative stereotype and does provide the atmosphere for more severe form of prejudice. Kids always push the limit. Up to what point do you think they will stop? Just merely joke about it? What’s the next step after that?

    It’s not my interest to crucify those kids with that stupid posting. I rather want to know what it was (and I still feel from the comments here that it still IS) that made it OK to joke about it. Talk is cheap. Saying sorry is easy. The question is why joke about it in the first place? And what would the likes of “the teacher” do to educate the kids about racial issues, free speech, hate speech and the consequences of exercising them.

    When Billy created the AAA and the kids posted those jokes, they are exercising their free speech rights. The same is true for humpey, the teacher, and everyone else who care to post here. It’s not a question of breaking the law. Hate speech is even protected by the First Amendment. But is it ethical? Is it moral? Is it OK?

    I wonder if the joke targeted the black or the jews, what response you’ll be getting? Did you even ask a minority what he/she felt about the joke and why it’s a big thing or not, and why fuss about it?

    Don’t shoot the messenger. Falloutcentral simply delivers the news that you will never see on the any of the news media. If not reported here, I bet you the AAA group at facebook will still be around. I am not advocating censorship. I am for MORE speech, but a dialogue, not one-sided where all you hear is your own.

49. Clueless said,

    July 8, 2007 at 3:49 am

    I’m really clueless.. see… I thought my first posting did not go through… Now, how’s that for something really funny…. Yeah stupid, I know.

50. Calm down said,

    July 8, 2007 at 4:15 am

    To “the teacher”:

    Thanks for testifying that what you said about the kids and the school are true. Why, would you believe everthing posted on the internet? Are the postings here confirmed by reliable journalists/sources? You can’t simply believe everything you read from the internet.

    Anyway, I lived long enough to know something about the human nature. No one can assure anyone that there’s no secret hatred going on towards this or that group of people. Besides, according to the “senior female @ fc” — I suppose fc means “Fox Chapel” — “The truth is that even if they hated asians, they have every right too.” Have the right? I suppose it’s legally right. But morally?

    Ok, let’s hear from other “fc” residents, specially the minorities. What do they have to say?

51. Ain't a racist said,

    July 8, 2007 at 4:22 am

    Do you become a racist only when you are an adult, or you grow into one since you’re a kid, when you acquired it from your parents and other adults in your community since it’s ok to joke about folks who don’t look like them?

52. the teacher said,

    July 8, 2007 at 4:33 am

    hey “aint a racist”

    nobody said this was ok. nobody is trying to say that this facebook group was ok. we are simply saying that its not as big a deal as everyone is making it, and if kids are trying to apoligize for their ways then let them. we are not trying to prove them right, we are simply showing the many ways that this has become ridiculous

53. Clueless said,

    July 8, 2007 at 12:42 pm

    Why’s my posting keep disappearing?

54. Still don't get it said,

    July 8, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    To “the teacher”: I suppose we can all forget about what antilocution implies? Forget about where it would lead because it’s just a joke? I bet you AAA at facebook would still be around if not for Fallout making some fuss about it.

55. concerned parent said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:18 pm

    What sort of programs Fox Chapel H.S. have to create more inclusive, safe and welcoming learning environments like the one offered by NCBI?

    http://www.ncbi.org/what_we_offer/customized_programs/schools/

56. MedcalDenDoctors said,

    July 8, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    Hi

    Bye

57. the teacher said,

    July 8, 2007 at 7:06 pm

    ok…i am going to say this one more time

    there is no actualy group for hating asians. there is a kid who thought he could be funny starting a group, and other kids just entered the gruop without really reading what it was about.

    and you are acting like it was like an active organization that actually did things. you said “AAA would still be around if not for Fallout making some fuss about it” if you read the comments, they ended like a month before the letter was sent to the principals of fc. this group was not an active group devoted to hating asians, it was one kid trying to get a laugh, and other people joining

    i personally was not part of this group. i just go to school with these kids and i know them all and i know what their intentions were. their intentions were simple…to be funny. they realized, because this has become such a big deal, that it is not funny in the least bit. they try to apoligize, and they just get yelled at more and are told that their apoligies are not acceptable. everyone on “my side” of the argument is only saying that these are good kids and they realize what they have done, so if they have the balls to apoligize, then forgive and forget. we are simply saying that they made a mistake, they are sorry, and it is not necessary to try to get them into as much trouble as possble.

    i know the next comment is going to read “why dont you let them speak for themselves and apoligize?” well, numerous kids have tried and they have been ridiculed for doing so, so that is why i am saying this.

    and again, to stress the fact, i need to say this one more time. most people just do not use facebook so they do not understand, but a group on facebook does not imply that they actually meet together and talk about their cause. it mostly consists of clicking accept once, and that is it. they did not get together and scheme on how they can hurt asians, and they made no threats or had any violence towards asians.

    enough said

58. what's the fuss said,

    July 8, 2007 at 8:03 pm

    Got ya teach. All points are well taken… And here’s the but… What made it ok, in the first place, for the joke to have taken place?

    We need to be reminded the postings here are not moderated. Anyone — sane or otherwise, involved or just oberver — can post anything they wish. So you get all sorts of absurd and crazy mumblings. You just have to do some filtering. Regardless, there are some truth in what many have said (minus the crap and mud slinging. I suppose you’re intelligent enough to know which is which.). And no one here is the spoke person for either side.

    I don’t work nor support Fallout. I just learned about these postings while looking for something else.

59. FC High School Student said,

    July 8, 2007 at 9:18 pm

    I go to school with Billy. In all the time I’ve known him, I have never seen or heard stories about him treating any people differently based on race. I do not condone Billy’s decision to start a group called “Anti-Asians Anonymous”; however, I do believe Billy when he says that he did not try to inspire hate towards Asians. I also believe him when he says that his apology is sincere.

    On another note, racism in high school is something that is not only present in the Pittsburgh area. I do not think it is fair for such a beautiful, recovering area to be deemed the center of racial ignorance based on this one widely publicized incident. I have cousins in eastern Pennsylvania and Virginia. I have heard their friends use racial slures, but I have never seen an example of violence against another based on race. In fact, I have never even heard a first-hand account of race-related violence.

60. the teacher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 12:40 am

    nothing made it ok. its is not ok…so that is why they are apoligizing for it. the only comment that i found terribly offensive and unacceptable, was from a random kid who does not go to fc. not that the other comments were ok, but you can see most of them were clearly done to get a laugh. this argument has become repetitive, and i am sort of sick of it. either let the kids apoligize and move on, or refuse to see their side and try to get them in more trouble.

61. Lindsay Cowher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 12:42 am

    Dear…well…everyone,

    I know many/most of the people who were involved in this group; however, I believe them to be good kids not trying to do any harm. Many people aimlessly join these facebook groups without realizing what they were about. As you can see, I just clicked join without even reading the title seeing it was from Billy, and even left a comment (you can see it above), but left the group shortly after. I don’t think any of these kids are racist, but as I can see this caused controversy. Of course, this may have taken it a bit far…but coming from a third person standard I just wanted to clarify that I am sure no harm was meant. I am not agreeing with what they did nor all the commotion it called…just that it was definitely not meant to be a threat of any sort. Take care!

    -Lindsay

62. humpy's gay commentator's gay said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:23 am

    so calling somebody’s gay going to solve anything?

    are you aware that most homophobes are closet homosexuals themselves? so i guess all the douchebags calling humper’s gay must be gay themselves.

    you take your own advice and practice what you preach and focus on more important issues than bashing asians on an asian empowerment website.

    HYPOCRITES!

63. humpy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:27 am

    as far i’m aware, “whiteboy” isn’t a racial slur in the same way that “honky, redneck, hick” or “crakkker” is. see, if i called billy or any of his numbnut followers like teacher here a “crakkker” then i’d be racist, but since i didn’t call anybody a crakkker i can’t be racist because i have friends who are caucasians of european descent with USA citizenships.

    and i apologize for anybody who’s offended my remarks have hurt. it was never my intention to be racist, now maybe the caucasian european descendants with USA citizenships can focus on much more important issues like how paris hilton just got of jail, instead of trivial issues like how asians have been racially attacked.

    see, if asians can’t be offended by groups like AAA and racist remarks that aren’t meant to be racist, then why can’t white europeans with USA citizenship be offended by a non-slur that’s not intended to be racist?

64. humpy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:30 am

    and it’s good to know that white european caucasians with USA citizenships don’t think racist slurs against asians are racist at all and that asians need to go get a life and a sense of humor.

    it’s good to know that white privilege still acts as a shield against responsibility.

    white privilege, telling minorities what to do and think and defending the racial hierarchy status quo since 1942.

65. humpy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:32 am

    sorry 1492, thats.

66. humpy's gay commentator is gay said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:35 am

    so, how’s calling somebody gay contribute anything to the discussion

    they say that homophobes are really closet homosexuals. so maybe all the closet homosexuals who call humpy gay can finally go suck each other off rather than trolling on the internet defending white privilege!

67. the teacher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:50 am

    we never said what they did is not racist. we just said that they themselves did not have cruel intentions, and were not making this to hate asians, but rather to get laughs.

    and if you are going to, once again, speak out against racial slurs, then you should have thought about that before you included one in your response before.

    we also never said get a sense of humor about this. it is not funny. we all realize that. thats why kids are apologizing for it, but things are said like “why can’t you whiteboys come up with better excuses after the racist remarks?”. nobody is saying laugh about it, we are trying to get you guys to understand how it was just a stupid thing on facebook and you should worry about actual threats to asians

68. the teacher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:53 am

    and you have yet to explain why it is the tragedy of the century when a facebook group is made containing racism, but its ok for you to use racial slurs.

69. humpy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 6:03 am

    post your own facegroup,myspace, etc. or if you’ll really want to discuss issues, i can show you some real websites.

70. Los Angeles Rules ALL said,

    July 9, 2007 at 8:22 am

    Who cares about a little crap town in Pennsylvania? Its probably a third world state.

71. Los Angeles Rules ALL said,

    July 9, 2007 at 8:23 am

    I hope the midwest takes back Brett Tomko. That guy sucks major balls. Jason Schmidt too. Please go back to Ida-friggin-Ho.

72. SugarShark said,

    July 9, 2007 at 9:16 am

    lets see where to start

    “There is no way you will ever be able to wipe out the hate. So instead why don’t you work on not taking such offense to it?”

    okay that’s just terrible, it doesn’t need explaining

    “humprey is being just as much racist to americans”

    okay this response is bad because humpey was specifically speaking of white americans, it might be creative semantics but when one person is talking about white people and you reply “hey dont bad mouth americans” the non-white americans can’t help but feel left out.

    “I have heard their friends use racial slures, but I have never seen an example of violence against another based on race.”

    yuppers there’s those not so bad slurs ya know the kind eh? calling your heterosexual white friend a nigger or a faggot is okay right? right? nod your heads

    there is alot of “this is okay, that is not okay” going on with this situation, hopefully there’s not too many asian americans in the “this is okay” category because even a little denigration or assault of anothers dignity is too much.

    the school’s decision and relative inactivity is disappointing. there have been almost identical situations at other schools on both East and West
    coast.
    there have been schools that ban/prohibit the use of
    Facebook/MySpace entirely; because it isn’t being used responsibly. other schools have enacted a probationary ban and have explained the reason for their action.

73. Real Issues said,

    July 9, 2007 at 2:09 pm

    To humpy: pls post those web sites that deal with real issues.

74. Lesson Plan said,

    July 9, 2007 at 2:30 pm

    “The Teacher”, here are some material for your next lesson plan.

    What is Racism?

    A. Dictionary
    Oxford English Dictionary: a belief or ideology that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially to distinguish it as being either superior or inferior to another race or races.

    B. Sociological Definitions
    In Portraits of White Racism David Wellman (1993) has defined racism as “culturally sanctioned beliefs, which, REGARDLESS of INTENTIONS involved, defend the advantages whites have because of the subordinated position of racial minorities,” (Wellman 1993: x).

    Sociologists Noel Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as “…a highly organized system of ‘race’-based group PRIVILEGE that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/’race’ supremacy.

    Sociologist Joe R. Feagin (2000: 16) argues that the United States can be characterized as a “total racist society”.

    Race: social construct or genetic reality?
    Many scholars maintain race to be a social construct with potent social and political effects but no basis in biological science. Scholars such as anthropologist Audrey Smedley (2007) point out that the very idea of ‘race’ implies inequality and hierarchy. Historians such as Theodore Allen (1994; 1997) have analyzed colonial records from Virginia and concluded that the idea of a “white race” was originally invented in the early 18th century to splice together various European ethnic groups who never before thought they had anything in common.

75. Sophomore Girl said,

    July 9, 2007 at 2:41 pm

    This is so f***ed up. My best friend and people I know well are on this list. I cant believe people want to blow this so out of proportion, that kids would end up getting expelled, most of the kids on there are sophomores, who are like 15 years old. Its just a joke, dont ruin someones future in education or what ever the f*** you people are planning to do because of a stupid group on facebook that no one would ever incorperate into daily life. My friend, and the rest of the sophomores on that list do not deserve to be arrested, or anything else. They didnt do anything illegal, so why not just let it go, instead of making it into a bigger issue.

76. the teacher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 3:30 pm

    humpy…

    congratulations. you just proved my point. you said if i want to talk about real issues, then you can show me some sites. im glad you are finally realizing that there are other real racist issues, and this should not be the issue it has been made out to be. im not doubting there are real issues, i am doubting that this is one of them. and humpy, why do you keep avoiding my question? why is this facebook group that involves racism such a huge deal, but you using racial slurs is ok?

    and to the person who just wrote all those definitions, i am going to be honest with you i did not read a word of it. i really dont care nor do i feel like looking at a bunch of dictionary definitions. i am not saying this isnt racist, because it is. im just saying let the kids apologize and move on

    and to sugar shark, im not really sure what the point was of the first half of your comment, but you are disappointed the school hasnt done anything? first off, this was not in school. second off, seriously what do you want the school to do? if you think that just punishing these kids for racism is the best thing to do, then you obviously do not know them nor do you fully understand the situation.

    and i like what one person said a while ago that was something along the lines of saying that punishing these kids is not the answer, if you really want to make a difference then teach them why their ways are wrong. if i got punished for clicking accept to a group like you guys are saying should happen to these kids, i would be pretty pissed off, and it definitely would not make me like asians more, nor would it inspire me not to do or say anything racist towards them. it would not solve a thing, and not help your cause at all. think about your cause before you think about dealing out as much punishment as possible

77. Lindsay Cowher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 4:13 pm

    immaturity.

78. Real Issues said,

    July 9, 2007 at 5:00 pm

    I believe the teacher and kids who said they don’t mean any harm. Just to get some laughs. I also think the kids don’t harbor any hatred towards any group. My issue, however, is that the conditions were just right for Billy to think it was cool to create AAA at facebook. That kind of atmosphere is actually everywhere, in varying degrees. Certain media outlets reinforces this kind of “cool” thinking. This incident is not isolated. It comes in different forms but, the bottom line is the same.

    Days and weeks from now, all of these will be forgotten. What then the community at FC will do to make the environment there no longer conducive to the thinking it’s cool to create an AAA copy cat?

    May I suggest this for starters. Every time you want to say “I’m not racist”, please stop, look yourself in the mirror and ask instead “Am I racist?”. And before you do, I think it helps if you read the definitions posted above.

79. Randy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Ok, I’m going to chime in here.

    First of all, to “Teacher”:

    I find it ludicrous for you to claim that most of these kids joined the group without supposedly knowing what it was. The group’s NAME is “Anti-Asians Anonymous”.

    Are you saying your friends can’t read?

    And then they proceeded to add comments to the page where they laughed at how “funny” the site was, so it is obvious that they completely understood what they were joining.

    To Billy HagBERG: That’s a Jewish name. You would think that someone with a Jewish background would be MORE sensitive to racism and intolerance.

    To those of you who say that this is just a stupid prank by kids, let me ask you:

    How does one come up with the idea to create a “I hate Asians” site to begin with?

    I am Asian, and never once in my life did I ever think it would be funny to create a group espousing “hatred” of another ethnicity, -even if it was supposedly done tongue-in-cheek. That kind of thought just wouldn’t occur to me.

    So you have to ask yourself, WHY do these kids think it was funny and HOW did they come up with the idea in the first place? Did any of the kids say “haha, what’s this site? That’s kinda f***ed up?” No, they all thought it was just HILLARIOUS, because espousing hatred of other ethnicities is just naturally funny stuff, right?

    If any of these stupid kids actually HAD any Asian friends, they would never have created that site.

80. Los Angeles Rules All said,

    July 9, 2007 at 7:20 pm

    These kids should be expelled or else another Seung Hui Cho might happen. No one wants that.

    Spare the rod. Spoil the child. Lets move forward America. Punish racism.

81. Moving On said,

    July 9, 2007 at 7:29 pm

    Sophomore Girl: no one is going to be arrested. Your buddies will not be expelled. I can ASSURE you that. And I doubt that any college will deny them admission because of this, but that’s a possibility after seeing one posting about that elsewhere… And, please stop using the f*** word. I thought FCHS is one of the “best” schools in PA.

    To all supporters of FC kids: what do you suggest should be done by whom so “we” can “move on”? Reminder: In the same way there’s no secret group in FC plotting against Asians, there’s no organized “we” who take pleasure ruining the future of stupid kids.

82. Randy said,

    July 9, 2007 at 8:08 pm

    What should be done? Maybe those kids should write a paper on the history of discrimination and racism against Asians in the USA.

    Make them do a book report on “The Chinese in America” by Iris Chang. Or perhaps a report on Vincent Chin?

    The first step towards eliminating racism is fostering a sense of EMPATHY in people. You cannot know where Asians are coming from if you are ignorant of our history and what we have had to endure in this country.

    I see that many of the whites that post here are saying “what’s the big deal?”. They say that because they don’t have a historical perspective on racism against Asians.

    Telling people to “just get a sense of humor” when they have lived through murder, rape, and oppression due to the color of their skin is ludicrous.

    Maybe once those kids learn some history, they won’t think this is so funny anymore.

83. the teacher said,

    July 9, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    i dont see where it says get a sense of humor on here. i have repeatedly said, its not funny

    and regardless of if they read it or not, im not sure if you have a facebook or not, but usually when people are invited to a group they just click accept without looking further into it. yes, they probably read the title, but probably did not give it another thought and clicked accept like always

    and even though this was not done in school, great idea that the school should issue a book report. seriously, you guys have some golden ideas on how to fix it. if in the middle of summer i had to do a book report because of one button i clicked (”accept”), i would be pretty pissed off and i dont think i would learn to accept asians. and your right, people did leave comments. the worst one was left by a kid who does not go to fc, and some other bad ones were left from kids at fc. but the kids who tried to apologize and got yelled at for that were kids like nick bacco and mike paradise. Where are their comments on this? they did nothing but click accept, then apologized for it later. ya, lets make them write a book report on asian history

    -also, billy is not jewish, just so you know

    -to the person who calls themself “real issues”, thank you for being one of the few people who looked at this reasonably and gave decent ways to fix it

    -im also glad you are speaking for them and can say that everyone thought it was just “HILARIOUS” (you used all caps as well). for example, lindsay cowher said “billy your terrible”. that sounds like she thought it was HILARIOUS.

    -and who is it that you think should be dealing out this punishment? it was not in school, and the principals said this as well, that they cannot do anything about it. should the police get involved and issue a book report, even though the kids didnt break a law? i have no idea what fallout central even is, one of my ASIAN friends just showed me this site (he agrees with what i am saying), should they issue this book report. you want these kids in a lot of trouble, and i think each kid got a letter sent home already. so who should punish these kids?

84. Bleak Outlook said,

    July 9, 2007 at 9:35 pm

    I like what Randy said. But I’m bracing for the worst. Kids today lack that sense of empathy simply because their excessive self-love. Just read the report by Jean Twenge, et.al. which says:

    “The Internet, with all its MySpace and YouTube braggadocio, is letting that self-regard blossom even more, said the analysis, titled “Egos Inflating Over Time.” Jean Twenge said she and her coauthors are not suggesting that more students today have a pathological narcissistic personality disorder that needs psychiatric treatment. Still, traits of narcissism have INCREASED by moderate but significant amounts, said Twenge, who last year published a book titled “Generation Me: Why Today’s Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable Than Ever Before.”

    And if you think that many of the FC kids live in the wealthiest neighborhood in Pittsburgh, no wonder many of them are clueless to the world outside their privileged bubble.

    If you’re a parent, here are some pointers on what you can do: http://dadtalk.typepad.com/dadtalk/2007/03/generation_ys_s.html

85. SugarShark said,

    July 9, 2007 at 10:41 pm

    I think banning facebook/myspace access in school is a just solution so that the other closet racists/classmates can get mad at the AAA members for getting caught.

    “and i like what one person said a while ago that was something along the lines of saying that punishing these kids is not the answer”

    this continues to happen at a more alarming rate at colleges where students are “adults” and feel less contrained to consider the feelings of others and the history behind why the minorities they are degrading feel that way.
    as recent as a few months ago 8 college students dressed up to celebrate the Cinco de Mayo holiday as gardeners and landscaper unionists “Spic and Span Inc” after it became public the college in it’s infinite
    wisdom decided to censor and blur out the students online faces to protect them from undue harrassment
    and “facilitate the healing process”

    !!!

    all claims to not punish these kids amounts to the same thing.

86. FC student said,

    July 10, 2007 at 12:16 am

    THIS IS GOING BEYOND WHAT IT NEEDS TO BE…yeah the kids were acting immature about making an “Anti-Asian Anonymous” facebook group, but now its to the point where the organizations getting these kids into trouble are acting even more IMMATURE. Half of the kids on this list did not even visit this site. BUT even so they did agree to join a group that was racism. OKAY so they did! Now they got punished. YES THEY GOT PUNISHED. They said they are sorry and as soon as someone told them about this they STOPED!…and to this..’I thought FCHS is one of the “best” schools in PA.’……okay so we might be known as ONE of the better districts in PA..and we are. But even so no matter where you live and how you are educated there is still opurtunity for trouble. There is no such thing as “PERFECT”!

    …to randy:….your teaching us kids real well by using the F word.

    Oh and why are only guys getting in trouble..you know there were girls on this facebook site…WHO POSTED..AND GO TO FC?

87. Randy said,

    July 10, 2007 at 2:21 am

    to FC student, sure, throw another red herring out there about the “F-Word”. Anything to deflect attention away from Hagberg’s actions.

    Perhaps I missed it, but how exactly did the students get “punished”? Who punished them? Their parents, the school, who?

    Instead of focusing on red-herrings and straw-man arguments, perhaps those of you who support those students should just pause for a second and think how HURTFUL that site was to the Asian students in your school, if there are any. Do you kids even KNOW any Asian students? Would you even have the GUTS to go up to one and say “yeah, I created an anti-Asian website because I thought it would be funny.”.

    Nobody is here to force you to parrot the line “Racism is BAD, Ummm-kay?” They’re trying to teach you to have a bit of empathy for other people and understand the real impact of your actions.

    You know what would mean more to me than a million apologies? Go read this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-America-Narrative-History/dp/0142004170/ref=sr_1_1/103-8324151-0391851?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184033912&sr=8-1

    It’s the History of the Chinese in America, by author Iris Chang.

    If you really want to learn something, read that and then maybe you’ll understand where we are coming from.

88. the teacher said,

    July 10, 2007 at 3:02 am

    no, they are not trying to just teach of to have a bit of empathy. they are trying to get the kids punished. that was made clear long ago

    and yes, we know asian students. many kids have said that they have asian friends and the only response to that was that either 1-they were lying, or 2-it is irrelevant

    they got a letter sent home from the school about it, and most of them got in trouble with their parents. i still dont understand why the school is involved in this, but still.

    and all of us get made fun of because of race. not that its ok, but we do know what it feels like. these kids (i know this from talking to them) feel very, very bad about this. your next comment is going to say “if they know what it feels like then why did they do it?” well here it is. THEY WERE BEING IMMATURE AND STUPID. THEY WERE NOT THINKING. NOTHING THEY HAVE SAID ABOUT RACE HAS BECOME THIS BIG A DEAL. NOW IT IS A BIG DEAL, AND THEY REALIZE WHAT THEY DID WRONG.

    and to randy…the fc student said a whole paragraph then said one little line about you saying the f word. i would hardly say that qualifies as “Anything to deflect attention away from Hagberg’s actions.” he wrote a whole paragraph talking about hagbergs actions, so next time try to use a little better arguments when attacking the comments of someone else

89. Let me guess said,

    July 10, 2007 at 3:29 am

    Why school got involved? I suppose because the kids identified themselves as going to FCHS

90. Moving On said,

    July 10, 2007 at 3:33 am

    Teacher: for this to move on, should this page or this entire site be taken down as well? Is that what you want? Please be more specific.

91. the teacher said,

    July 10, 2007 at 4:02 am

    ok for let me guess…
    if i commit a crime, say i steal something, and i tell the police that i am from fox chapel, then the school should get involved, right?

    well here, they did something that really pissed a bunch of people off. they were outside of school. they identified themselves as going to fc. oo ok, so i guess that gives the school the right to intervene

    good logic

    when did i say something about taking this site down?

92. Sophomore Girl said,

    July 10, 2007 at 4:11 am

    you go “the teacher”.

93. not humpy said,

    July 10, 2007 at 4:14 am

    @teacher’s comment:

    “and to the person who just wrote all those definitions, i am going to be honest with you i did not read a word of it. i really dont care nor do i feel like looking at a bunch of dictionary definitions. i am not saying this isnt racist, because it is.”

    see, that’s the very definition of white privilege which your “teaching mind” should be learning (a teacher is always a student first), but instead of actually learning about racism you just use your almight white-privilege to lecture and pander to asians what’s considered offensive or not.

    which is why humpy isn’t going to give you a full explanation, because he doesn’t want to get involved with this apologist website, but instead points you to CN Lee’s moderate website geared towards asian issues. (we’ll start you off slowly.)

    http://www.asian-nation.org

    of course, leave something in the forums and word will get to humper’s and he’ll reply on there.

94. randy's the man said,

    July 10, 2007 at 4:16 am

    randy’s solution is the best one there is for these students. but face it, are these white privileged kids and their “teachers” (apologists) really interested in asian-american history and politics? all they’re interested in is defending white privileged status quo, and that’s why they’re on here detracting from the real issues and questioning non-slurs like “whiteboys” in order to deflect the real racism.

95. Sophomore Girl said,

    July 10, 2007 at 4:24 am

    To the people critisizing Fox Chapel, what difference does it make which school these kids were from? Who cares? That is completely irrelevant! Its not the schools fault that this group was created, AT ALL. Besides that, what is the school supposed to do about this? Its out of their hands, the scandel took place when school was not in session. They have no power.

    I agree with fc student, this is being blown way out of proportion. Just let it die. Listen to some Enya, relax, and consider this, the group was dumb, the kids were dumb to join, and the group has been deleted. amen.

96. Let me guess said,

    July 10, 2007 at 11:52 am

    Teach, it doesn’t help if you feed sarcasm with more sarcasm… and your logic isn’t any good at all.

    Let me walk you through a highly credible scenario… Billy created AAA, some dumb kids joined the group without knowing what it was all about, dumber kids know what it was about and posted comments on AAA… Billy let the group stand for close to a year (I think Billy made a comment about it’s been that long)… Activists discovered AAA and spread the word. Sympathizers got mad and wanted to do something. They thought of posting protests on AAA but they didn’t want to register at Facebook. So, the next best thing was to write to the School Admin. They asked if these kids actually go to FCHS and if the kids did it within the school (if school has policy blocking access to sites such as Facebook)… School Admin responded to those inquiries… Fallout posted AAA’s activities and School admin responses… School wrote to the kids’ parents… Billy fumbled on making an apology, posted here (inflaming the activists/symphatizers with “buts”)… The teacher wondered why the heck the school got involved… blah… blah.

    How’s my logic now? Will that get at least a “C” from the teacher?

    Oh, one more thing… earlier you said something about AAA was inactive for a month. It doesn’t matter. It was still accessible world-wide for all to see. Not until this site posted its activities that it was pulled down. I don’t condone censorship myself unless it’s self-censorship. So, I hope Billy pulled it down himself.

97. Let me guess said,

    July 10, 2007 at 12:07 pm

    In addition…

    When the activists/sympathizers discovered AAA, there were no indication that it was just a mere joke. Remember, there are volumes of incidences in the past that the kind of AAA postings could not be merely considered just a mere rude joke by the targeted group. There was, is and will be more than enough racist incidents here in the US and in Pittsburgh(!) to warrant vigilance on the part of the targeted group. Therefore, this site or its symphatizers should not be asked to explain its position but rather, if falls on the culprit to provide enough evidence and ASSURANCE that there is no hatred in those jokes. I say, there’s zero chance Billy can explain credibly that it’s an innocent, hate-free but ,yes, rude and ignorant and racist, joke.

98. Let me guess said,

    July 10, 2007 at 12:20 pm

    Why not answer moving-on’s questions? That person is guessing (hey that’s my role). So, you don’t want this page removed. Then, what exactly do you mean by let’s move on? You mean, no further comments?

    How about … your school adopting what Randy said about knowing some American History? You still have not realized that moving on includes you (the school), the parents, the kids, not just “us”.

99. So sorry said,

    July 10, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    My first posting here is not meant to ridicule the comments of innocent kids. All I want to know is for them to clarify their positions. So, I listed who responded so far and wanted to hear from all of them, directly and not from any self-appointed spokeperson.

    With that… I’m sorry to have offended anyone.

100. So sorry said,

     July 10, 2007 at 12:36 pm

     I read again my first posting. Is that considered “yelling”? I think you’re simply over-reacting, teach.

101. FC student said,

     July 10, 2007 at 2:37 pm

     OKAY point blank the reason why none of us kids(FROM FC)want this to go to the school even more is because our school already makes us do beyond what we need to do…name me one PUBLIC district in PA that makes them do 5-10 PRACTICE PSSA’s YEARLY than the actual PSSA. HARDLY ANY…so you bringing this joke into our district is gonna make us have to do more stupid LOUSY CRAPY WORK all because a HANDFUL of kids from FC made A MERE JOKE to an ASIAN RACE….okay and the kids got “PUNISHED”..the school was notified by some asian organization….letter above…the school notified these kids parents(by sending a very lengthy and serious letter)and now the kids parrents are taking it way to far because half of you guys don’t know what the heck FACEBOOK is LET ALONE how the freak IT WORKS…and wait i want stop there right now…okay someone go to www.facebook.com..sign in and crap than go to search and search ANTI ASIANS..look at the groups THOUSANDS OF THEM..and look in some of them some HARSH threats…that aren’t jokes. FOCUS ON THEM. WE ARE 15 year old kids…we live in FC..um whens the last time you heard a crime there? NO ONE DID THIS INTENTIONALLY TO HURT SOMEONE OR TO HURT. A JOKE A FREAKING JOKE.

     PERSONALLY i think you guys just want this to go as far as getting it nationally publizied just to make the DISTRICT look not as good as what it, the people that attend, and others say about it…and I have talked to several people about this and agree.

     ..this is kinda random but why NOT MISS CAUCASIAN AMERICA or MISS WHITE AMERICA???..they have a MISS ASIAN AMERICA….but us whites can only can join one beauty pagent and that just MISS AMERICA..where we welcome all races…WHY ARE US WHITES ALWAYS PEED ON? You guys have the life cause if anybody does anything to you you can always be like “OH RACISM” and us white people would be like “OH WE ARE SO SORRY BLAH BLAH LETS GIVE YOU ALL JOBS THAT WITH GIVE YOU WERALTH BLAH..ECT”…US WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO STAND UP. THE BLACKS PEED ON US AND NOW THE ASIANS ARE TRYING TO!
     ..that might be getting a little far but i am P/O at this whole situation I have asians friends and loved them now that this has occurred this makes me think twice about them. CAUSE IF I MAKE A MERE JOKE…and they don’t take it they might freaking come out with and kill me or tell on me about being “RACIST”..whatever i have been called so much racism words and i am never like OMG I AM SO EFFING HURT. NO I LET THEM ROLL OFF MY BACK. GET OVER IT!

     THE KIDS GOT PUNISHED GROW UP AND LET IT ROLL.

102. FC student said,

     July 10, 2007 at 2:45 pm

     Morgan Masci (Fox Chapel Area High School)…why not on the list of getting punished..did she leave the group WHO CARES LOOK AT THE POST THE PEOPLE THAT POST SHOULD OF GOTTEN INTO TROUBLE NOT THE INNOCENT PEOPLE WHO JUST JOIN THE GROUP BECAUSE THEY KNEW BILLY!…sorry i had to add! I am friend this girl I don’t really want her to get into trouble but its NOT FAIR.

103. the teacher said,

     July 10, 2007 at 4:11 pm

     to “not humpy”-me saying that proves nothing, it means that i know it was racist. ive been taught what it is before, and me being white has nothing to do with that because i am agreeing with all of you that it is racist

     to let me guess-ya, you wrote to the school. that was fine. everyone here is saying that they should get in so much more trouble in the school, and it is clear from our principals responses that nothing else can be done. so therefore, no, the school cannot and should not do anything else

     and i think that this discussion should end. i realize that i am a major reason why it has not, so this will be my last comment. i understand you are all offended, but keep in mind these were a bunch of stupid high school kids who were acting very stupid. and you want assurance that it was meant as a mere joke…look at billys record!! he has one of the highest IQ’s in the grade (i know that doesnt mean he cant do anything racist),has never gotten into trouble, and…o ya he is 16. we all are. it was not meant to harm anyone, they are sorry, find some real issues

     listen to what fc student said

104. Real Issues said,

     July 10, 2007 at 6:09 pm

     OK, everyone please listen to the teacher. This is it. No more comments, please. It will only go further downhill from here and it wont solve the problem.

     To the Falloutcentral Admin: please disable more comments.

105. Randy said,

     July 10, 2007 at 7:50 pm

     So nobody took me up on my suggestion to read some books such as the one by Iris Chang.

     So basically the only thing the students learned from all of this is that it’s ok to be racist as long as you don’t say things like that out loud. Keep the those racist thoughts to yourself. DON’T try to learn history, DON’T try to learn empathy, and DON’T try to learn where other people are coming from. They just “need to lighten up and get a sense of humor”. Right?

106. other fc student said,

     July 10, 2007 at 8:14 pm

     randy…your an idiot. the point is that these kids are not racist. they are stupid. they dont actually feel that asians are inferior. they just thought it would be funny. so i have no clue how you get the moral of that you can be racist as long as you keep it to yourself. the moral is think about what you say and that certain things arent funny

107. Chris Young said,

     July 10, 2007 at 8:15 pm

     I’m going to make this brief, and I hope this clears up a few things.

     First, my name is Chris Young and I was asked to be the representative for the set of Asian-American organisations and citizens addressing this issue. I am a member of the PA Governor’s Advisory Commission on Asian American Affairs; however, the commission has not at this time taken a stand on this issue. I make that point for clarification.

     Second, what our course of action will be has not yet been decided upon. We will be gathering to discuss further our options. Until then, it is useful to speculate what we will do or request. The input I have received thus far has ranged in opinion quite a bit.

     Third, I should mention I have only had time to review some of the discussion here, just so you know.

     Fourth, if the kids still think this is just a harmless joke, then it shows how truly little they understand of the real world. 4.0’s and book learning is one thing; knowing and understanding the real world is quite another. To me it is clear that many of these kids are clueless (which is not atypical for many teenagers… they have very little experience in life). And this is perhaps the real point here.

     Fifth, it seems obvious from the language that Hagberg was not sincere in his apology. He just wantred to stay out of more trouble. I was a kid too… I can tell. Many of us have been in trouble for things we probably knew werre wrong but wanted to do anyway, and then get mad because we were caught had have to fess up. I’m personally not surprised. I think at least some of the other kids are in the same boat.

     Sixth, I think that most of us are much less interested in punishing those involved with this group than determining how pervasive anti-Asian sentiment is in FC, and in the metro Pittsburgh region as a whole. We are also interested in how serious it is and how to prevent it. To you the content of the site were jokes; to many of us, it is an an indication of how little you think of us just because of our race.

     Finally, let me put this in context for you. Recently, in FC, I was apprised of what appeared to be anti-Asian vandalism in Fox Chapel. There have been anti-Asian assaults in the Pittsburgh region, including the Baumhammer shootings. I was actually attacked because of my race before. So, if you knew that these types of incidents have occurred to a group of which you were a member, how would you takes these “jokes”? They’re be a lot less funny.

     I hope this clears things up a bit. Please keep in mind that right now I am mostly speaking as an individual.

108. Randy said,

     July 10, 2007 at 8:43 pm

     Right, like that other FC student who said:
     ______
     “..this is kinda random but why NOT MISS CAUCASIAN AMERICA or MISS WHITE AMERICA???..they have a MISS ASIAN AMERICA….but us whites can only can join one beauty pagent and that just MISS AMERICA..where we welcome all races…WHY ARE US WHITES ALWAYS PEED ON? You guys have the life cause if anybody does anything to you you can always be like “OH RACISM” and us white people would be like “OH WE ARE SO SORRY BLAH BLAH LETS GIVE YOU ALL JOBS THAT WITH GIVE YOU WERALTH BLAH..ECT”…US WHITE PEOPLE NEED TO STAND UP. THE BLACKS PEED ON US AND NOW THE ASIANS ARE TRYING TO!”
     ________

     Listen, I’m not really interested in apologies. All I care about is that the students use this incident as an opportunity to LEARN. Try to UNDERSTAND why people are upset. Read a little history so that you can put this incident in the context of how people of color have historically been treated in this country.

     This is a GREAT opportunity to learn, but I’m not seeing anybody rising to the occassion. All I see is a bunch of denials, kneejerk responses, and dismissive attitudes.

109. FC student said,

     July 10, 2007 at 9:29 pm

     are you a loser? like honestly randy get a life you are trying to make a bunch of hormonial 15/16 year olds to read a book to “gain history”! HAHA WHAT A JOKE! GET A LIFE.

     ..sorry buddy but no one is gonna sit around and read a book about asians and there “problems” with “racism”..these days kids have enough to deal with! what a loser!..the kids already know what they did and it was wrong they don’t need anything ELSE. Now i think you should just stop commenting on this page because your making yourself look like an ass.

110. SugarShark said,

     July 11, 2007 at 2:57 am

     “To the people critisizing Fox Chapel, what difference does it make which school these kids were from? Who cares? That is completely irrelevant! Its not the schools fault that this group was created, AT ALL. ”

     WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF BEING STEREOTYPED
     first timer huh?
     the school has a responsibility to monitor and prohibit students online access to questionable content, guess what this AAA facebook page is, it might have even been created on school computers or had members join it from school property.

     “they dont actually feel that asians are inferior. they just thought it would be funny.”

     people[whites in this case] make fun of minorities for their religion
     accented english or presumption of accented english, career choices, appearance, there is a big list of what you people have found to make fun of
     making fun of gays, women, the overweight, persons with physical limitations is harassment and largely criminal

     kids are dumb; yes, no one is disputing that
     but learning their lesson is something not solved by giving a simple apology these days they need real consequences they can feel. They’re not 6 years old returning a toy they stole from a store, who will go on
     to visit a different store and steal from them only to make another “heartfelt” apology.

111. antiestalishment said,

     July 11, 2007 at 6:38 am

     @real [tissues]

     “To the Falloutcentral Admin: please disable more comments.”

     submitted for your approval, the epitome of white privilege telling PoC what to do and what to think. and we thought that the age of colonialism and imperialism have ended?

     so yes, massa, i’m sure they’ll lock the threads for you because you’re white and demands it.

112. Real Issues said,

     July 11, 2007 at 4:48 pm

     I myself is against any censorship. So, I suppose what I asked is too much… yeah, stupid.

     My point then (not posted) and still is: those FC students and the teacher don’t get it and will never get it because they refuse to listen. They don’t and don’t want to realize how blind they are. All they care about is themselves. No wonder the same kind of situation is and will be repeated there and across the US. So, I felt it’s useless and hopeless to address them (at least) here. Not that “we” can’t handle the criticism, sarcasm and name calling. Just check the postings and who are the immature ones.

     You misread my ethnicity. Go read my other postings.

113. Randy said,

     July 11, 2007 at 6:05 pm

     To FC Student:

     Your attitude epiptomizes what is wrong with America today. We expect so LITTLE from our kids that we can’t even expect them to learn a little history. That’s just “too much” for a typical American teenager to handle, right?

     So they are ignorant, stupid teenagers who will grow up into ignorant, stupid adults.

     No wonder most American adults think the 9-11 hijackers came from Iraq and that most of them can’t even locate Iraq on a map.

     Revel in your ignorance.

114. this is stupid said,

     July 11, 2007 at 7:37 pm

     to the person who just wrote a big paragraph, that is awful that you were attacked because of your race. that is absolutely terrible. also, that would be a real issue to focus on. was there a page on a website devoted to talking about how terrible the person was that did that to you? did you sue them? did you notify a bunch of organizations about it? that seems like a real issue to focus on

     randy, you dont know everything. seriously, stop acting like you do. yes these kids are ignorant, but dont try to sum up what is wrong with america and pretend that you are perfect and there is nothing wrong with you

     this whole argument is stupid

     go ahead and tell me how i am so ignorant and i dont understand anything and all of you do.

     this whole argument is still stupid

115. other fc student said,

     July 11, 2007 at 7:52 pm

     my comment just got deleted. what i said in it was that to chris young, that sucks that you got attacked because of your race. seriously, that is terrible and it is awful that somehting like that could happen. but at the same time, that would qualify as a real issue. did you make an entire page with comments talking about how horrible the person was that did it? did you notify a bunch of organizations about it? did you do everything that is being done here? that is a real issue to focus on

     randy…i am glad that you know everything. you really do understnad the real world i guess. i mean, you know exactly what is wrong with america, you can categorize most american adults as being stupid. i mean, seriously, dude you get it.

     and what do you know about how little is expected from the kids of america. i hear most of the time about how much is expected, and how competitive it is to get into college. i have spent most of my nights over the past year doing homework, much like most other kids. but seriously, i guess you know everything once again

     to sugar shark…FOX CHAPEL DOES NOT CONTROL THE ENTIRE INTERNET. what is their responsibility to delete everything that is bad content? facebook is blocked at school, so it obviously wasnt done at school. if this is done at home then the school cant magically delete it from a server that is not theirs!

     back to randy, your smug sense of self satisfaction that you get from telling high school kids how ignorant they are makes me sick. you act like you are the only one who has to deal with hurtful comments and that because of that you know everything. we all deal with it. get over yourself and get a life aside from trying to teach your “knowledge of the world” to a bunch of high school kids

116. hard facts said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:07 pm

     University of Connecticut professor Jack Dovidio, who has researched racism for more than 30 years, estimates up to 80 percent of white Americans have racist feelings they may not even recognize.

     “We’ve reached a point that racism is like a virus that has mutated into a new form that we don’t recognize,” Dovidio said.

     He added that 21st-century racism is different from that of the past.

     “Contemporary racism is not conscious, and it is not accompanied by dislike, so it gets expressed in indirect, subtle ways,” he said.

     That “stealth” discrimination reveals itself in many different situations.

     Did I get your attention? Then read the rest of the story at: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/12/12/racism.poll/index.html

117. Randy said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:23 pm

     to FC student:

     There’s nothing smug about pointing out someone else’s ignorance. When your only defense boils down to “It was just a joke, it’s no big DEAL!!! Get over it!!!”, then yes, you are ignorant.

     You are ignorant because you have no context in which to view this incident. Asian Americans are not upset because a couple of silly kids made a stupid website. In the grand scheme of things, yes it is no big deal. But taken in the context of historical oppression and the DAILY RACISM that many minorities in this country deal with everyday, then this one “minor” incident becomes part of something bigger. It becomes an ongoing struggle to be accepted as equals in American society.

     It is that larger context and historical perspective that you lack. All you can see are the trees, while the rest of us are looking at the forest.

     And that is why I suggested reading a couple of books on the subject because learning that history would provide you with the historical context that the rest of us are operating under.

     But hey, it’s too much to ask teenagers to learn about the world they live in, right? It’s all about ME ME ME.

118. congrats said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:23 pm

     what the kids did was racist. you proved your point. congrats

119. randys sucks said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:26 pm

     there you go again. talking about how we are looking at the tree when you are looking at the forest. seriously, you know everything

120. hard facts said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:35 pm

     Whites who adopt a pseudo-liberal rhetoric of promoting diversity without pushing for the change of institutional or structural issues then define themselves as “innocent” and absolved of their participation in reproducing racial inequities. For example, often racist attitudes and behaviors get attributed to ignorance, which implies that the people did not really know any better. On the contrary, Whites do know about racism in society and are often choosing carelessly to reproduce it rather than work against it (Groves, 2002; Otto, 2002). By claiming ignorance and/or innocence, White ways of being in the world, values, and beliefs are left unquestioned and without critique.

     http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-13880322_ITM

     To FC students and the teacher: Which one describes you best: choosing carelessly to reproduce it rather than work against it?

121. Randy said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:40 pm

     to FC student:

     Seriously, that’s you’re defense? A sarcastic remark about how I “know everything”?

     All that means is that you are so busy being defensive and focusing on my “attitude” that you have completely shut your mind down to any new ideas. Trying to personalize this attack against me doesn’t change anything.

     By calling me “smug” or a “know-it-all” you are basically admitting that you have no counter-arguments.

122. hard facts said,

     July 11, 2007 at 8:57 pm

     In the minds of some, racism may seem a bygone issue. Most countries now have extensive antisegregation laws. Apartheid in southern Africa has collapsed. And human rights groups around the world remain on guard, ready to call attention to any ugly appearance.

     But then along comes a book like Mark L. Perry’s The Last War: Racism, Spirituality and the Future of Civilization with a powerful challenge to any such complacency.

     In a work that is at once thoroughly researched, profoundly philosophical, and at times almost painful in its piercing observations, Dr. Perry asserts that although racism has outwardly been legislated away, it has in many cases simply gone underground, where it remains hidden (often unconsciously) in the minds of many people.

     “Racism is not in our vocabulary,” Dr. Perry writes, laying out his case for a deeper examination of the issue. “It is not brought up in polite conversation because, like UFOs, it causes embarrassment among mature, well-educated realists and rational thinkers. Racism is a myth.”

     Yet, he observes, there are nevertheless numerous signs that a “covert” form of racism remains in many places…

     http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-11445094_ITM

123. randys sucks said,

     July 11, 2007 at 10:26 pm

     haha no it doesnt. it means that your arguments are entirely stupid and the way you think that you know everything about this situation and everything about the kids in it and what is wrong with them is ridiculous

124. Randy said,

     July 11, 2007 at 10:47 pm

     Why are my arguments stupid? Why is “my way” of thinking “ridiculous”? I have never claimed to know “everything about the situation”. I can however, judge people based on their actions.

     Really, you can level all of the accusations you want but you haven’t provided any reasoning or logic to back it up. So far all of your posts lack any sort of substance. Perhaps your high school needs to offer some classes in critical thinking.

125. FC student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 1:37 am

     um randy how effing old are you?
     were you ever kid..do you know
     anything about childhood? OKAY the
     kids made a mistake and by there
     mistake they LEARNED from it.
     enough with your bullshit about this
     racism crap! GET OVER IT! Its not
     gonna change. Right now we are
     pretty much at its best with racism.

126. Randy said,

     July 12, 2007 at 4:42 am

     to FC student
     you are right. i just realized that i am completely wrong

     P.S.-i am just pissed off cause my life is just horrible
     i have no friends
     i am a virgin-at age 42
     i just get offended because I wish I was part of a minority- I am actually a protestant white male. sorry for all the lies.

127. FC student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 4:45 am

     it is ridiculous because you are acting like you know what is going through these kids minds when you clearly have not been in high school for some time

128. FC student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 4:45 am

     and dude, your a virgin?

129. former allegheny student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 5:43 am

     @ Mr. Chris Young:

     Sadly, I think most of us Asian-Americans know that more punitive actions beyond what’s already been done by the FC school is improbable.

     However, I think a proper discussion and steps into teaching people like “teacher” here some lessons on racial diversity and tolerance should be much needed.

     The “controversy” on this website, for the most part, hasn’t been focused on the FC students themselves but rather the “fallout” of the resulting apologist attitude and dismissal of Asian-American concerns as being irrelevant and “get over it.” Sadly, if somebody like “teacher” here can indeed still be employed and harbor these ignorant and closet racist views, then something needs to be done about the teaching staff and their prejudices before the students should be dealt with.

     And as for the apologists for these kids, first you call them smart and bright young people (highest IQ, student council, etc.) and turn around and say they were being stupid and ignorant. At least can you make up your mind as to what excuse you’re using for trivializing their racism?

130. m said,

     July 12, 2007 at 10:03 am

     fc student.

     the fact that you cant take critism shows that you are insincere with your apology, that you are being so defensive as if there was nothing wrong with what your schoolmates did.

131. hard facts said,

     July 12, 2007 at 1:44 pm

     The postings from fc students and the teacher are more than enough evidences for FC Community, its School District and its community leaders to look deeper into racial issues within their community and schools, in particular.

132. hard facts said,

     July 12, 2007 at 1:47 pm

     former allegheny student: I couldn’t say it any better!

133. hard facts said,

     July 12, 2007 at 1:50 pm

     fc student: I can tell you’re one of the students listed as members of AAA.

134. this whole thing is ridiculous said,

     July 12, 2007 at 4:31 pm

     so to the people who started this or who support this…is this the first time that you guys have made an entire webpage devoted to an incident. is this the first time that you guys have notified a bunch of organizations and all contemplated together as to what actions to take about it? if so, that would mean that this is the worst incident you guys have had to endure…ya, you guys have it real tough

     to the same people-do you guys do this all the time. every time something happens that is racist towards asians, do you notify a bunch of organizations and make a webpage about it and have a bunch of people who support your cause come together to talk about how terrible it is and what should be done to get the people in trouble? if so…then wow. everyone has to deal with prejudice and other ridicule because of things they cant control. i dont see most people making this big a deal about everything

     which one is it that is correct because i personally have absolutely no idea, so will somebody tell me

135. FC student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 5:18 pm

     HAHA TO BAD I AM NOT.
     WAY TO CRITICIZE!
     I am a female and all
     of the “students” on the list
     are males.

     ‘this whole thing is ridicoulous’..way to put it!
     this is going beyond what it needs to be NO ONE FEELS SORRY FOR YOU anymore…because now instead of having the problem ADDRESSED appropriately you are taking full ADVANTAGE of it.

136. Randy said,

     July 12, 2007 at 6:29 pm

     Oh, I see, now you’re impersonating me and making silly comments about my manhood now. Very mature.

     To FC student, you said “Right now we are
     pretty much at its best with racism”.

     Wow.

     Have you not read through the rest of this site? Do you really think racism is not a problem in America today?

     Your ignorance is…….sad.

137. FC student said,

     July 12, 2007 at 9:06 pm

     I feel its a problem but nothing as close
     as what it use to be like. I DID feel sorry for this whole racism thing. But i feel now you are USING your race to be “loved”

138. this whole thing is ridiculous said,

     July 13, 2007 at 3:03 am

     someone answer my question

139. randy sucks said,

     July 13, 2007 at 3:31 am

     nobody likes randy

140. stupid-fc-students said,

     July 13, 2007 at 7:41 am

     You fc-students sound pretty immature. Good luck in your future careers in the fast-food industry. Perhaps after 5-10 years of hard work they will let you wear the paper hat.

141. randy sucks said,

     July 13, 2007 at 3:11 pm

     hahah fc is one of the best schools in the nation. you are now making fun of us and telling us that we will be working at a fast food restaurant? there are a lot of things you can say right now that would be logical bad things about fc, but making fun of its students by telling them they will have a fast food job is just stupid. i have no idea what you do, but i can guarantee you that a lot of the kids at fc will grow up to be the future business leaders of america, doctors of tomorrow, and the most high powered lawyers that there are

142. randy sucks said,

     July 13, 2007 at 3:11 pm

     you can say that these kids were acting stupid and their common sense and knowledge of world issues are lacking, but when it comes to schoolwork fc is the best place around so think about your arguments next time

143. stupid-fc-students said,

     July 13, 2007 at 5:02 pm

     you’re saying the kids are smart?

     Smart kids don’t create racist websites and think it’s funny.

     Smart kids don’t try to defend the creation of a racist website as a “harmless prank”

     Smart kids don’t treat those offended by the racist website in a condescending way and tell them that it’s no big deal.

     Why are you fc-students still posting here anyways? what exactly are you trying to defend right now?

     Spend less time being defensive and more time trying to learn from your mistakes.

     Otherwise yes, a career in the fast food industry awaits you.

144. randy sucks said,

     July 13, 2007 at 8:24 pm

     so you are saying that what you think is funny has a direct correlation to your iq?

     so your saying that smart people dont try to state their opinions?

     so your saying that smart people never made mistakes when they were in high school?

     what are we trying to defend right now? possibly our classmates

     your a tard

145. other fc student said,

     July 14, 2007 at 4:56 am

     ya seriously, your an idiot.

     i can guarantee you that billys IQ is a hell of a lot higher than yours. he made a very, very bad decision but that in no way means that he is not smart. just the fact that you are sitting here and trying to tell me that billy hagberg is a stupid kid and has a future consisting of working in a fast food restaurant is seriously just dumb.

     you asked what we are trying to defend? maybe our classmates? maybe freedom of speech?

146. wisdom said,

     July 14, 2007 at 3:16 pm

     You can be smart with IQ of 150+ and at the same time stupid, i.e., lack of wisdom that comes with experience and interaction with the real world. Therefore, may I suggest to our young readers (specially, and to everyone as well) that they restrain themselves from invective speech. That kind of “free” speech does not help nor solve the situation.

147. other fc student said,

     July 14, 2007 at 4:48 pm

     yes you are absolutely right. smart kids can be at the same time stupid, and make terrible decisions. but im pretty sure billys IQ will be able to get him a better job than working at a fast food restaurant. we were not defending that he didnt do anything stupid, we were just saying that he will be able to get a better job

148. this whole thing is ridiculous said,

     July 16, 2007 at 5:42 pm

     so to the people who started this or who support this…is this the first time that you guys have made an entire webpage devoted to an incident. is this the first time that you guys have notified a bunch of organizations and all contemplated together as to what actions to take about it? if so, that would mean that this is the worst incident you guys have had to endure…ya, you guys have it real tough

     to the same people-do you guys do this all the time. every time something happens that is racist towards asians, do you notify a bunch of organizations and make a webpage about it and have a bunch of people who support your cause come together to talk about how terrible it is and what should be done to get the people in trouble? if so…then wow. everyone has to deal with prejudice and other ridicule because of things they cant control. i dont see most people making this big a deal about everything

     which one is it that is correct because i personally have absolutely no idea, so will somebody tell me

149. Observer said,

     July 17, 2007 at 3:14 am

     “This whole thing”…
     If you navigate around this web site, you’ll find the answer to your question. You might click on the link below, for starters. It appears that, from the start, Fallout Central has rated this incident a “One” ( lowest in significance), compared with the hate crimes the group follows, which rate a “4.”

     http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/categoryhate-crimes/

150. Observer said,

     July 17, 2007 at 3:22 am

     Sorry, “This whole thing…”

     That link doesn’t work.

     Try scrolling to the top of this page, hit “News,” then scroll down the gray box on the right side, and click “hate crimes.”

151. this whole thing is ridiculous said,

     July 17, 2007 at 5:08 am

     ok…that doesnt change the fact that every time something happens, even if it is a “one”, a webpage is made and a huge deal is made out of it. i understand that a lot of things are offensive, but everyone has to deal with that stuff. i have not looked through the rest of this website, and im sure there are real threats on here. make a huge deal out of those, not a huge deal out of things that are a “one”

152. Racism is ridiculous (Andres Bonifacio) said,

     July 17, 2007 at 1:46 pm

     http://www.racialicious.com/2007/07/17/free-the-jena-six-now/#more-771

     UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a couple boys made a mistake, you know, but I, you know, I think it’s all being blown out of proportion.

     This is the same type of reasoning, this idea that racism is being “blown out of proportion” that illustrates that the alleged Fox Chapel students who have commented on this story thread don’t get it. Need you be reminded that the Facebook started by Fox Chapel students references “Pearl Harbor: our only mistake was stopping at two” and “Fixing their (Asians/Asian Americans) eyes with just boiling water and postage stamps”. Even the most obtuse individual can see the implicit threat contained in these statements, the statements are far from subtle.

     An important element of a true apology is that there be some type of sincere remorse for the act committed, not merely remorse for the fact that one got publicly caught for their actions. The responses on this thread from alleged Fox Chapel students about how learning about why promoting racism is wrong and the historical context of race based hate crimes against Asians/Asian Americans is too difficult for students who already have so much responsibility on their young shoulders is disgusting.

     Look in the mirror, the problem does not lie with the Asian American community picking on some innocent kids. Fallout Central, the Organization of Chinese Americans, and the Filipino American Association of Pittsburgh did not say to themselves, “Let’s find some kids to harass.” Remember who started this. Ask yourself, “Why has there been this type of outrage and fury sparked by my actions?” It’s not about being “oversensitive”, it’s about placing this incident in the historical context of hate speech, hate crimes, and attacks on Asians and Asian Americans during the history of the United States. That so many students from Fox Chapel High School joined this group, found it to not be problematic, indicates that there is a SERIOUS PROBLEM. This is not about some innocent joke.

     Anti-Blacks Anonymous
     Anti-Jews Anonymous
     Anti-Asians Anonymous

     We have learned from experience that after the slurs and racial epithets, the bats, wheel locks, and fists come shortly after.

     You want to understand why the anger?

     Read about Vincent Chin.

     http://www.asianweek.com/061397/feature.html

     Read about hate crimes committed against Asians and Asian Americans in the US because of our race and ethnicity.

     http://www.modelminority.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Hate+Crimes

     Read the following:
     Asian American Dreams by Helen Zia

     Yellow: Understanding Race in America Beyond Black and White by Frank Wu

     Strangers From a Different Shore: Ronald Takaki

     You don’t have to learn or even make the attempt to understand why your actions, the actions of your fellow students, or the underlying reasons they or you thought it was okay. There is no obligation for you at all. You could conceivably go on living pretending that this didn’t happen. That’s called “white privilege”.

     We don’t have that luxury. History has shown Asian Americans what happens when we stay silent about this type of

     http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/259354.html

     http://www.angryasianman.com/2007/07/hate-crime-on-canal-street.html

     http://www.angryasianman.com/2007/06/chelsea-handlers-asian-jokes-on-tonight.html

     http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1NiZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NzE0ODM1MiZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTM=

     http://www.angryasianman.com/2007/06/teens-accused-of-racial-intimidation.html

     You want Asian America to “get over it?” NO. The onus is on YOU. When people like you stop using racial slurs and epithets, stop attacking people on the basis of their race/ethnicity, stop making a joke of hating someone on the basis of their race/ethnicty. Then, and only then will we stop and “get over it.”

     Until then, learn this lesson. EVERY TIME THIS HAPPENS. We will move to hold you accountable for your actions, we will aggressively fight for equality and justice, and we will NOT tolerate this in silence.

     Our children attend your school and are in your district, too. Did you think that we would stand idly by, permitting these racist actions and implicit threats to go unchallenged, when the possible ramifications of inaction would fall on our children?

     Guess again.

153. huge deal said,

     July 17, 2007 at 2:04 pm

     “huge deal” is relative. The difference in perspective is similar from the FACT that most blacks think that racism is still a very much big issue and daily concern to them compared to most whites who now believe that it’s a thing of the past.

     One big problem with AAA is that it’s posted on the internet, like a huge billboard by the freeway. If AAA were not reported, it would probably be still accessible and, therefore, anyone could join and post more negative statements. The internet (with its many online community services) is now the new mass medium. More young people today go to the internet rather than read the newspaper, watch TV or listen to the news radio. I consider the work of Facebook as an “equalizer” of sort to things you will never see elsewhere on any medium including the internet.

154. huge deal said,

     July 17, 2007 at 2:16 pm

     … if there were no internet, the equivalent of what AAA did is to post the same “funny” statements and pictures on a community or public library bulletin board, and asking the readers to add to the postings… That’s just one of the issue.

     The other issue is that why make it in the first place? Several postings here already asked that question. To add to that, can you do or suggest anything to prevent the recurrence (in your community) of the same line of thinking that brought about the creation of AAA (i.e., kids there will not even think it’s cool)?

155. wow said,

     July 17, 2007 at 3:20 pm

     if you are so pissed off about racism, making this big a deal out of one of the little problems is definitely not the right way to go about abolishing it (i am not the one calling this a little problem, that scale is that gave it a “one”). maybe im just not looking hard enough, but i usually dont see other races making a webpage and such a huge deal each time something considered a “one”, happens.

156. huge deal said,

     July 17, 2007 at 4:16 pm

     I can’t speak for FalloutCentral. I wish they will say something too. Anyway, if they decide to include all incidents including the ONEs, that’s their prerogative and yours to question that, too.

     As for me, I’m more disturbed with the prevailing MIND SET that it’s cool to make fun of certain ethnic group, and how do you reverse that kind of thinking. The AAA is simply the result of that mentality.

157. Observer said,

     July 17, 2007 at 11:23 pm

     I’ve noticed a time-stamping and posting problem on this forum that is making it appear that commenters are talking past each other, and not bothering to read what previous posters have written. In some cases, though, posts appear out of order, which seems to have led to extra frustration and miscommunication.

     For instance, “wow” posted a comment at 3:20 p.m. today that appears to follow “Andres’” passionate and cogent argument, made more than an hour earlier. As a result, “wow’s” comments appear extraordinarly insensitive and dismissive While “Wow” can speak for himself (herself?), I don’t believe Andres’ post was on the board when “wow” posted.

     I wonder if this mechanical fluke in the site may be exacerbating the difficulty in having a satisfactory conversation on this subject.

158. FC student said,

     July 18, 2007 at 3:44 am

     this is just stupid now.

159. who is stupid said,

     July 18, 2007 at 4:33 am

     To those who consider this page stupid: You’re implying that AAA was created out of “nothing”: that it’s purely random yet “the most stupid” thought by one of the smartest kid in your school.

160. who is stupid said,

     July 18, 2007 at 4:56 am

     To FC students: more reading material for you… yeah, how you hate to read. But you’re reading this page, so what’s one more page? Beside this one provides similar situation in a college setting. And this one shows you — if you care to open your eyes — that what happened at FC is NOT an isolated case!

     http://xicanopwr.com/2007/05/racist-theme-parties-freedom-of-speech-or-freedom-to-hate/

     Excerpts (for those who hate to read the entire article):

     “In colleges and universities across the country, white young adults are finding it fashionably acceptable to throw racist theme parties… a junior, elected to post pictures from the party on the popular social-networking site, Facebook, which was later discovered … After the party, several attendees expressed their regret, claiming that they had no intent to be offensive… However, they ended up tripping over themselves because they all pleaded ignorance as the reason for their actions at the racist party…

     Letter #1
     I also did not understand what this world truly meant and it makes me extremely upset to think that anyone who does or does not know me believes that I am racist. … My use of malicious language or stereotypes does not reflect my personal views or beliefs and was a complete and utter serious misjudgment.

     Letter #2
     I am not a person who thinks badly of other people. … But the person you see in these photos is not representative of who I am, nor is it the type of person I want to be … Please know that the insulting sentiments portrayed in the pictures are so contrary to how I truly feel about the students on this campus and the minority population.

     Letter #3
     I am very sorry that these pictures have caused you pain, and that my attire has reflected a racist attitude in your eyes. I can assure you that I have always considered myself an individual who openly accepted others, and I had no intention of causing any damage with this attire.

     … Sadly, the university has decided to sweep this issue under the rug by deciding not to punish the students, particularly in light of their of their “zero tolerance for hate”….

     … It is true that some things are definitely inappropriate and shouldn’t be punished too harshly, but given the frequency of these events, when do we start drawing the line between what’s entertaining and what’s offensive? … We can no longer just shrug them off as isolated incidents and pretend they innocently made a mistake….

     … Hate speech does not just apply to overt charge words used by folks like the KKK; it also represents the manifestation of socially accepted stereotypes. One could argue that the message the university is sending out to the University of Delaware community is that ethnic slurs is acceptable because the First Amendment allows them to … also sends a message that UD’s University Policies is just there to give lip service and really has no teeth because in the end if an individual or organization is ever caught, all will be forgiven if they apologize for their actions, plead ignorance of their surroundings and conduct a Dr. Phil type forum.

     The actions of the university are just another painful reminder to extent of this country’s commitment to maintaining white supremacy. In order the defeat racism, we must realize all parties must be committed to ending racism. The first step we must answer this fundamental question: How can we really tackle racism when a majority from the white culture actually do believe racism does not exist in this country? Yet, how is it that a nation who is legally committed to equal opportunity for all - regardless of race, creed, national origin, or gender - continually reproduces patterns of racial inequality? How is it that in our open, participatory democracy, racial minorities are still underrepresented in positions of power and decision-making? …

     … However, if we continue to close our eyes to this reality, it becomes impossible to operate effectively as a society…

     Thus we are compelled to ask, what would a racial justice-oriented set of policies or program look like in the twenty-first century? We should not dismiss this as a rhetorical question, but instead attempt to respond to it from a radical pragmatist viewpoint, one that takes its commitments seriously.

161. who is stupid said,

     July 18, 2007 at 5:05 am

     Consider it a favor to you… so you wont throw similar parties when you get to college… but what the heck, most school admin won’t do a thing.

162. who is stupid said,

     July 18, 2007 at 4:43 pm

     “Facebook group lands USC football player in hot water”
     http://media.www.dailytrojan.com/media/storage/paper679/news/2007/03/08/News/Facebook.Group.Lands.Usc.Football.Player.In.Hot.Water-2764591-page3.shtml

     I’m sure you can well identify to the responses on both sides of the issue.

     There are hundreds if not thousands of examples I could cite. Yeah, even an FC student mentioned that before.But enough for now.

     What can you conclude? That racist joke happens all the time? That it’s no big deal? That one more, like at FC, doesn’t mean a thing? That we can’t do anything about it, so just treat it as harmless? Go figure.

163. who is stupid said,

     July 18, 2007 at 5:13 pm

     One last thing. I wonder the conclusion made in the report below can be said of FCHS? The responses on this page from FC students and teacher show otherwise. My only hope is that they do not represent the majority of students and teachers there.

     ——————————–
     DEERING HIGH SCHOOL
     REPORT SUMMARIZING STUDENT FOCUS GROUPS ON HARASSMENT
     http://www.preventinghate.org/pdfs/deering_hs.pdf

     Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence
     March 3, 2006

     SECTION I: INTRODUCTION
     The purpose of these focus groups was to collect student perceptions of bias, stereotyping and harassment at the high school.

     A National Perspective on Harassment and Bias in Schools

     That Deering High School experiences bias, stereotypes and harassment focused on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion and other issues is not surprising. These same issues exist at every high school the Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence has worked with across the United States, and even outside the country. We have found that high schools are distinguished less by the severity of the bias, stereotyping and harassment than they are by the willingness of school leaders to address these issues with honesty, creativity and boldness. By this latter measurement Deering High School is poised to become a very positive example of leadership in confronting, responding to and preventing prejudice and harassment.

     SECTION III ANALYSIS
     It is important to state one caveat before discussing our analysis of the information we received in the focus groups. The Center for the Prevention of Hate Violence has had the opportunity to work with a variety of schools across the country. We have worked closely with small rural schools with homogeneous populations as well as large very diverse urban schools, public schools as well as private and parochial schools. Despite this variety of experiences, we have never visited or worked in a school which has completely eliminated harassment. We believe, therefore, the fact that Deering High School students experience harassment is to be expected. Furthermore, it is important to note that the information about harassment that we have collected from the focus groups we conducted at Deering High School falls well within the range of harassment we have found in the schools in which we have worked.

     CONCERNS:
     The information reported by both students in the focus groups raised issues involving harassment that are commonly faced by schools across the United States. However, the students described four areas that are of considerable concern…

     SECTION IV CONCLUSION
     We are very optimistic about the ability of Deering High School to create a climate in which every student is physically and emotionally safe. Our optimism arises from the perceptiveness and awareness of the students in the focus groups, their willingness to participate and their concern for their fellow students. Our options also arise from the strong commitment of Deering High School administrators, faculty and staff to create a school in which every single student feels safe and respected.

164. jake said,

     July 19, 2007 at 4:17 pm

     so what do you guys think should be done about this?

165. Voldemort said,

     July 20, 2007 at 2:32 am

     seriously guys these kids meant and still do not mean anything bad towards asians, it was a simple joke gone bad. this could ruin these kids lives. do u really want to ruin kids lives or atleast put them off at a bad start because they unconciously join a myspace group that did not hurt or did not intend to actually dp anything more than give people a few laughs. and please stop this crap
     we all know they did nothing wrong so stop ur complaining with the Billy Hagberg president of jagoffs and crap like that, they r good kids.

166. Lindsay Cowher said,

     July 20, 2007 at 4:02 am

     You fc-students sound pretty immature. Good luck in your future careers in the fast-food industry. Perhaps after 5-10 years of hard work they will let you wear the paper hat.

     ^ That made me laugh out loud….

     seriously? hahaha.

167. Lindsay Cowher said,

     July 20, 2007 at 4:03 am

     and “voldemort” (creative fake name, evil in fact) is absolutely right.

168. Emilio Jacinto said,

     July 20, 2007 at 3:08 pm

     So Asian-Americans should just take your word that the creators of this group did not mean anything bad towards Asians. I guess we’re just misinterpreting the intent of statements like:

     “Fixing their eyes using only boiling water and postage stamps!! Ask creator for details.”

     “Pearl Harbor: Our only mistake was stopping at two.”

     “Ever wonder who let the mexicans and canadians in?”

     “Another Chinese hideout in a giant bowl of urine. Where’d they go?”

     “I ate your dog, but I’m not sorry!”

     Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
     at 1:03pm on March 11th, 2007
     “yess!!! i love this hahah i realy do hate chinese people well not all of them but most”

     Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
     at 10:35pm on April 24th, 2007
     “we need some more members. everyone spread the word. just is here, and its named AAA”

     Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
     at 9:57pm on June 1st, 2007
     “i regret nothing kiki”

     ALex Irvin (East Carolina) wrote
     at 9:23pm on March 30th, 2007
     “I really do hate asians My room mate is one and he passes his asian sicknesses to me all the time. They all need to go back where they came from”

     Did Voldemort or Lindsay Cowher bother reading any of the previous entries explaining in detail why this incident is problematic? How obtuse can any one individual be? What’s more disturbing is are the attempts at rationalizing the actions of these students and the attempt to minimize the seriousness of a verified bias incident based on animus against the ethnicity/race of people.

     “they unconciously join a myspace group that did not hurt or did not intend to actually dp anything more than give people a few laughs”

     Point 1: No, stop the historical revisionism. These students knew what they joined when they joined a group titled

     “Anti-Asians Anonymous”

     Point 2: People were hurt. Do you think that implicit threats against people on the basis of their race and ethnicity is a victimless crime? Do you think that there would be this type of community outcry if people didn’t perceive a threat to their children? We are human, we respond to threats, we love our kids.

     Point 3: By “give people a few laughs”, do you mean, “a few WHITE people?” It seems quite clear that Asians and Asian Americans are not laughing at your and/or your classmates hate speech.

     Okay, I’ll tell you what, since you’re so interested in illustrating that this was just a joke “gone bad” (i.e. you were called on your racism), why don’t you take the opportunity to educate Asians/Asian Americans on the humor of these “so called jokes”. Let’s start with this one:

     “Fixing their eyes using only boiling water and postage stamps!! Ask creator for details.”

     Does this one talk about the humor of how European Americans view the eye shape of Asian American eyes? Is the punchline, if you throw boiling water on an Asian American, they scream in pain and open their eyes wider and then you can use stamps to stick their eyelids open so they’re more round, like the eyes of Euro-Ams? Is that it? If not help me understand the humor. Is it satire, parody, what is it? So throwing boiling water on Asian Americans constitutes cutting edge humor?

     Try this one:

     “Another Chinese hideout in a giant bowl of urine. Where’d they go?”

     Urine or piss is typically “yellow”, right? Another racial social construct is that Asian Americans have “yellow skin” because they’re, “yellow”, right? So if someone with “yellow” skin, hid out in a giant bowl of piss, that is cleverly, ALSO yellow, then European Americans wouldn’t be able to see them because their yellow skin would match, am I right?

     How about this one:
     “Ever wonder who let the mexicans and canadians in?”

     The “joke” on this one is that everyone just knows that European Americans hate Mexicans, Canadians, and foreigners in general, so who let in all the “furiners” but the Asian Americans, eh? Let me guess, this “joke” is a critique about xenophobia.

     And last but not least,

     Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School) wrote
     at 1:03pm on March 11th, 2007
     “yess!!! i love this hahah i realy do hate chinese people well not all of them but most”

     I guess this “joke” just speaks for itself, right? I mean, it’s not as though Brandon Elkins said he hated ALL Chinese people, but only MOST, so that makes it okay.

     ALex Irvin (East Carolina) wrote
     at 9:23pm on March 30th, 2007
     “I really do hate asians My room mate is one and he passes his asian sicknesses to me all the time. They all need to go back where they came from”

     and this one. I especially find the “They all need to go back where they came from” nativism of interest.

     The previous comments pleading either personal ignorance or ignorance on behalf of nephews, kids, students, etc. are disheartening. Ignorance is not a defense. To be frank, it’s quite clear this wasn’t an accident or not knowing this would be racial in nature, that much is crystal clear. Complaining because Fallout Central and the proactive folks who stood up against this blatant racism didn’t first attempt to contact the students involved? That’s rich. Did the students involved attempt to contact anyone in the Asian American community before launching their racist group? If they had, I’m sure we all wouldn’t be here discussing this situation.

     Some of these kids parents are doctors and professionals. Where did these kids learn these racist attitudes? Would you want to be treated, have your Asian American kids be treated, or be a colleague at a hospital or institution of higher learning with someone who helped cultivate these types of attitudes in their kids? Would you want to be represented by these kids parents in a court of law?

     District Superintendent Anne Stephens states that the school has a committee of staff and students that work with diversity issues during the school year. I think this specific issue would be one to discuss and work on in the context of that, assuming this committee isn’t just one that pays lip service to the idea of diversity in the school while not engaging in any actual actions to defuse racial tension or discuss anything of substance.

     “Voldemort” and “Lindsay Cowher” seem to be on the same page and argue “we all know they did nothing wrong”. Wow, that sure sounds like these future leaders of tomorrow really comprehend the seriousness of bias incidents. That’s sarcasm, btw. I don’t know who the “we” is, that “Voldemort and “Lindsay” are referring to, but it seems clear that many Asian Americans, as well as some school administrators and individuals in Pennsylvania state government, think otherwise. All I can hope for is that these self-styled “future doctors, lawyers, politicians” will engage in some self analysis about why they thought it was okay to participate in bias against Asian Americans.

     Earlier in the thread, someone wrote:

     ‘i am P/O at this whole situation I have asians friends and loved them now that this has occurred this makes me think twice about them. CAUSE IF I MAKE A MERE JOKE…and they don’t take it they might freaking come out with and kill me or tell on me about being “RACIST”’

     Nice, because Asian Americans exercised their First Amendment rights to say that we won’t tolerate this bias and hatred aimed at our community, it is the Asian American community’s fault that a European American kid feels discomfort at making future racist statements. My response: GOOD. If what happened here makes you or your fellow students think twice about participating in a bias incident, then GOOD. If defending a group called “Anti-Asians Anonymous” and rationalizing/minimizing bias and racism is how you show love to your Asian American friends, you can keep your so called “love”.

     This is not about “insensitivity”, this is a racially motivated bias incident. Let me put this into context. These Fox Chapel students made this group in the Pittsburgh, PA metro area, Pittsburgh, a city that in 2000 experienced the hate crime spree killings of Richard Baumhammers who targeted Indian-Americans, Chinese-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Jewish-Americans, and African-Americans.

     http://the-duke.duq-duke.duq.edu/justice/Taylor/Baumhamm.htm

     Sandip Patel, the only survivor of that hate crime spree passed away earlier this year.

     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07035/759386-85.stm

     This is not a joke. This is not funny. This is not harmless.

     http://www.tolerance.org/teens/stories/article.jsp?p=0&ar=112

     http://www.asianweek.com/081999/feature_timeline.html

     The attempt has been made in this story thread and by other individuals commenting to calmly and reasonably illustrate to the Fox Chapel students and sympathizers reading that bias incidents and hate crimes occur on a continuum (see Allport’s Scale of Prejudice).

     It’s there to read and understand if you choose to take the opportunity to try. For those of you who willfully close your eyes to deny the truth of what occurred, that’s up to you, but it doesn’t change the ramifications of what was done. If not for others, then for yourselves. Understanding what happened and why it happened, and how to prevent and change the attitudes that made it happen is in your and your children’s best interest.

169. jake said,

     July 21, 2007 at 12:51 am

     so what do you think should be done about this?

170. emilio's the man said,

     July 21, 2007 at 1:50 am

     emilio’s the man. pretty much nicely summed up the position of the anti-racist and anti-apologist camp very nicely.

     however, these FC kids and their teacher aren’t sorry about their racism, they’re only sorry about getting caught.

     if anything, people like their teacher above should be the ones that require discipline as they make it appear it’s alright to perpetuate racism and then justify and defend the racist acts of their over-privileged kids.

     @jake:

     if you’ve read the discussions at all, everybody thinks Randy’s solution is the best one. however, all the racists (the poster “teacher” above) and apologists are just telling people “get over it” and sadly the racist FC school system will probably just do that.

171. jake said,

     July 21, 2007 at 2:43 pm

     the racist FC school system will probably just get over it? the school had absolutely nothing to do with this, so the school should not and cannot do anything about it. i agree with all you guys that something can be done, im just saying that it is not reasonable to expect the school to do it, and deem the school as being “racist” when they dont

172. Observer said,

     July 21, 2007 at 6:40 pm

     Point of clarification for “Emilio’s the man”:

     I don’t believe any FC teachers have posted here. The person who has posted as “teacher” is a student.

173. observer watcher said,

     July 23, 2007 at 4:22 pm

     the person who posted as “teacher” seemed too literate and seems to have a vocabulary bigger than MTV which all the numbnut FC students here watches religiously.

     while maybe not a FC teacher, it’s still troubling if a real teacher somewhere held those views written above by “teacher.”

174. kevin smith said,

     July 23, 2007 at 5:04 pm

     I think everyone should quit crying about what happened on facebook. Billy Hagberg had all the right in America to make the group that he did, so once again, stop crying. There was nothing on that site that created a clear an imminent threat to anyone or anything, so there should be no action taken against Billy or any of the persons involved. VIVA BILLY!!!

175. observer watcher bystander said,

     July 23, 2007 at 5:05 pm

     if you are going to make fun of fc students for being dumb and being “numbnuts”, at least make sure that your subject-verb agreement is right. “which all the numbnut FC students here watches religiously”

     also, it would be while maybe not AN fc teacher, not a fc teacher.

176. randy still sucks said,

     July 23, 2007 at 6:38 pm

     your site is the thing that rated this a one on the scale of prejudice. that would mean that while it happened and was something bad, it exhibited the least amount of an actual threat. you guys are saying all these terrible things have happened, so why are you not making such a huge deal about those? racism is terrible, and crimes based on race is even worse…but why dont you focus on those issues? if this big a deal is made out of something that is a one, then an even bigger deal should be made out of things that are higher. i dont know, while this whole thing happening was terrible, it seems to me like a lot is being made out of a “one” incident. it brings me back to the fact that if this is one of the few things that have been bad enough to make an entire webpage about how terrible it is, then you guys dont have it as tough as you think. if you make a big deal about EVERYTHING, including ALL the things that are ones, then wow, you would do a lot better to focus on the things that are clear threats rather than making a huge deal out of every one incident, making it not as big a deal the next time that something like this is brought to everyones attention

177. A concerned Asian-American parent said,

     July 23, 2007 at 8:20 pm

     I’m still not seeing any comprehension from sympathizers of Billy Hagberg & the others

     Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Winston McCarty (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Anders Bergren (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Aaron Cichowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Adam Borowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Michael Paradise (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Kevin McKamish (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Greg Vaisleib (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Sam Caushaj (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Nick Horne (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Brian Skura (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Alec Christie (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Tom Stewart (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Nicholas Lombardi (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Nick Bacco (Fox Chapel Area High School)

     who formed and joined this group indicating that they have any understanding or even sympathy as to why there has been an uproar over this issue. Sure Billy had the right to make a racist group, it’s not illegal to be a racist or to join a racist group. What makes you think that the Asian American community, the folks at Fallout Central, and others don’t have a similar right to call Billy and his merry band of racist sycophants on their so called “jokes” a.k.a. hate speech? Furthermore, you have posters who keep on trying to deflect blame with such useful statements like, “This isn’t serious, focus on something else.”

     YOU go focus on something else, it’s clear that you haven’t been in a position where you think to yourself, “I’ve been subjected to racial epithets, and now there are reports that people are attacking people like me just because they hate Asians/Asian Americans for being, well Asian. This could happen to my kids.”

     If you feel so strongly about how Billy and pals didn’t do anything wrong, write an op-ed piece for the Post Gazette and the Tribune Review, I’m sure your defense of individuals who initiated a bias incident will be well received, as will your “pooh-poohing” of what amounts to hate speech.

     If nothing else, the apologist statements of Billy’s sympathizers on this thread seem to point to a bigger problem in Fox Chapel of what seems to be larger social acceptance of anti-Asian sentiment. Note the “they did nothing wrong” school of thought.

     The school/district should and has an ethical responsibility to get involved. These kids didn’t label themselves “John Smith: bigot”. These students identified themselves as Fox Chapel High School students, the vast majority of the members are FCHS students, logic dictates that if there are FCHS students who are proponents of these beliefs en masse, then something needs to be done to proactively address the issue, at the very least for the sake of the Asian American students in that school and district. If this group were entitled “Anti-Jews Anonymous” or “Anti-Blacks Anonymous” mark my words, these kids would be held accountable for their actions.

     What should be done? What does the schools “diversity committee” do? Should parents of APA students in that school be sent notices in the event that additional bias incidents occur? Should some type of debriefing occur that brings together the perpetrators, concerned members of the community, and officials to discuss the ramifications of this incident? Should teachers be informed that this incident occurred in order to be more vigilant in the event that future events occur?

     I’ve heard that there have been meetings in the community about this to assess what should happen and what the response should be. Inaction or “letting it slide” is not an option.

178. reappropriate » Blog Archive » The Racism Fairy said,

     July 25, 2007 at 3:44 pm

     […] Billy Hagberg, Fox Chapel Area High School student Update! […]

179. Jose Rizal said,

     July 25, 2007 at 4:02 pm

     http://www.reappropriate.com/?p=788

     The Racism Fairy cannot be seen by the naked eye, but evidence of her handiwork is at once obvious. She causes a wave of racism to overtake her victim, making them spout racist slurs very much against their will. To cover her tracks, she will cause the victim of her Racism Pixie Dust to emerge from her influence claiming any one or a combination of the following defenses to remove the blame for the racism from themselves, including:

     1) I had no idea what was coming out of my mouth!
     2) I didn’t know what I was saying was considered racist!
     3) I’m not racist — I’m a person of colour!
     4) I’m not racist — I have minority friends!
     5) Other minorities say it too!

180. exholt said,

     July 25, 2007 at 6:54 pm

     If the racial apologist arguments put out by the FCHS students and those who support them are indicative of their logical and critical reasoning skills, I fear for the future of our country. The people in this group seem to be content to wallow in their ignorance. From seeing other folks who were called out for similar incidents, they are merely angry they are being held accountable for their apologist BS.

     Few of the FCHS apologists and their supporters seem to understand that seemingly “minor” racial incidents tend to spin out into more major racial incidents if they are not checked at the earliest possible stage. As seen through the evolution of European antisemitism and American racism against racial minorities in history, events that may seem to be “no big deal” and are unchecked at this early stage could evolve into pogroms, lynchings, murders, massacres, and other more horrific incidents. This was the point the board admin and like minded posters were trying to get across in spite of your White privileged obliviousness.

     One good book that details the history of European Racism is George L. Mosse’s “Toward The Final Solution”

     http://www.amazon.com/Toward-Final-Solution-History-European/dp/0865274282/ref=sr_1_4/103-9959466-6768642?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185389440&sr=8-4

     While the book focuses on European racism, many of its points are applicable to the history of American racism against racial minorities.

     Also, the whining by FCHS students that they already have “so much work to do” without having more “crap work” indicates a severe lack of a decent work ethic. When I was a student at an urban magnet public high school, most of my classmates stayed up till at least 2-3 am each night to finish their rigorous homework assignments while participating in multiple extracurricular activities. If a school is mandating academically rigorous homework every night, I would consider that a bare minimum of what a good high school should be doing.

     This lack of work ethic exhibited in the comments of many FCHS students could severely impede their success in college and the workplace where they WILL do lots of “crap work” at the risk of failing a course, academic suspension, or being canned from your job.
     If you don’t learn how to deal with this in high school, you will suffer lots when you attend college or start working. Saw too many college classmates get flunked out and professional colleagues get canned for avoiding doing “crap” assignments.

181. minger said,

     July 25, 2007 at 7:56 pm

     This is for those who would defend the kids who engaged in racist speech:

     1) It’s not an infringement of freedom of speech to criticise hate speech

     Social disapproval of speech is not the same as legal regulation of speech. It’s not even the same as calling for the legal regulation of speech, which is itself one step removed as actually regulating speech.

     2) Just because someone apologizes does not mean they are sincere

     Especially if the apology comes after getting caught and publicly criticized.

     3) Just because someone’s apology is sincere does not mean they have to be forgiven

     Last I checked, forgiveness was an act of grace, and not an obligation.

     4) Just because a person didn’t realize his speech was racist does not mean it wasn’t racist

     5) Just because a person didn’t realize his speech was racist does not absolve him of blame. The real question is “should he have known?” and not merely “did he know?” Here I think it’s pretty obvious that the group’s creators should have known better. They pretty much admitted as much in their apology.

     6) Just because a person “is not racist” (whatever that means) does not mean every act that person engages in is not racist

     7) It hardly bears noting that just because you have Asian friends doesn’t mean that:
     a) you’re not a racist
     b) your speech can’t be racist

182. observer watcher bystander said,

     July 27, 2007 at 3:15 am

     what was the point of exholt’s comment? haha he spent 2 paragraphs talking about how lazy every fc student is and how hard he had it because one person said they did not want to do a report on asian racism.

     nice

183. Japanese American Citizens League (Pacific Citizen) national coverage said,

     July 27, 2007 at 7:12 pm

     http://pacificcitizen.org/content/2007/national/July20-stom-facebook.htm

     No one is laughing at this.

184. To Lindsay Cowher said,

     July 27, 2007 at 8:23 pm

     Hey Lindsay, ask Hines Ward if he thinks anti-Asian racism is funny.

185. to the guy who just said that said,

     July 28, 2007 at 1:26 am

     ask lindsay if she ever said that any of this was funny. while your at it, ask her if she was one of the few people who said on the website something that was against them (”billy, your terrible”).

186. mark said,

     July 28, 2007 at 3:51 pm

     Team Fallout:

     After reading the replies in defense of these racist brats, it’s fascinating to see how many use the new Conservative trick of making the victims of racism into “racist” and “hypocrites” for challenging the scumbags.

     Of course, the racist who spew this bile don’t care about how their victims feel. They just think it’s all in fun and the victims just need to lighten up and understand that it’s “just a joke.”

     For the record, it’s not funny, it’s not a joke, and high school kids know that it’s racist; but because these kids are white and live privileged because of their “race,” they don’t have to worry about racism affecting their lives. Now that someone has put up a mirror their ugliness, they and their supporters get all defensive.

     Let’s see, 50 years ago it was all in good fun and the protection of white woman-hood that 14 year old Emmett Till was butchered. His murderers did so with the same sort of righteousness that these little monsters decided to attack Asians through their “fun” website. Sure, these kids didn’t actually harm anyone physically, at least we don’t know that. But, had not people voiced opposition to their cruelty, might these brats become the kind of college kids and then men who bully their Asian peers or discriminate against Asian colleagues in the workplace? Would they also be the kind of people who might serve on a jury and decide to “toss the book” at someone who’s different from them?

     Over and over in the posts by their defenders, the same lame spiel is presented about how these are just kids or that people innocently join groups on Facebook. Right. I seem to recall Justice Alito feigned ignorance at joining a racist and sexist alumni organization. And just a year later on the Court, Alito was only too happy to show his true racist feeling by helping to gut Brown v. Board.

     Maybe these kids will learn a lesson to keep their hateful mouths shut.

187. exholt said,

     July 28, 2007 at 7:13 pm

     observer watcher bystander,

     If you had read my paragraphs more carefully, you would have figured that I was referring to FCHS students who were whining about doing homework every night on this blog. These complaints remind me of many spoiled suburban college classmates from supposedly “good” public/private high schools who whined about the “heavy college work” even when most other classmates and I felt the workload was manageable or in some cases, a cakewalk.

     If doing one essay on Asian racism poses pushes the envelope to the point they crack from the excess strain, these whiners should be concerned about how ill-prepared they are for the brickbats college and life may toss in their direction.

     Judging by the non-apologetic “I did not mean to offend” “apologies” and the further undercutting of those tepid apologies by dictating to those victimized that “there are more important issues to worry about”, FCHS kids like Billy Hagberg have a serious attitude problem.

     Most kids in my urban neighborhood and I were raised with the idea a genuine apology takes full ownership of the actual wrongdoing with no evasiveness nor equivocation. Attempting to evade being on the spot by reframing the discussion along the lines of “what’s the big deal” meant one is digging themselves a much deeper hole. This behavior usually merits nothing but contempt for that person from everyone else. This behavior is one reason why politicians and lawyers have such poor reputations in our society.

188. visitor said,

     July 30, 2007 at 4:47 pm

     On a more dire news for OTHER high school students in the Pittsburgh area, read:

     Duquesne high school will close
     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07157/791820-55.stm

     (Guess what kind of neighborhood Duquesne kids live in? And, say if FC is the neighboring community, what would be the response be like?)

     Well, here are some of the responses from the neighboring communities:

     Duquesne, West Mifflin parents vent frustration
     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07166/794346-55.stm

     W. Mifflin residents worried about Duquesne students
     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07200/802828-55.stm

     E. Allegheny residents unhappy about Duquesne students
     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07201/803125-55.stm

     E. Allegheny to file suit over Duquesne transfers
     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07205/803859-55.stm

     Here are some responses from Duquesne kids:

     Student Tiffany Holman, who will be a junior next year, told the board “you have put a bull’s eye on our back.” She said Duquesne students know that they will not be accepted by any of the neighboring districts.

     ………

     For Darrale, it was words like those printed in the Post-Gazette on July 19 that stung him deepest. A West Mifflin resident was quoted as saying her daughter would be “scared to death of the first day of school” if Duquesne students were infused into West Mifflin.

     “My mom and I were talking about everything and especially about the people from West Mifflin saying they didn’t want us and calling us names and stuff,” he said. “You know, that hurts, man.

     “I wish people would realize we aren’t a bunch of troublemakers and thugs, but we’re just regular kids who have to work hard because a lot of us don’t have a lot of money.”

     Are you surprised at all by the responses from the kids and the surrouding communities?

     It only proves that …

     The Duquesne High School controversy shows how we still tolerate an unequal system of public education, argues professor BEATRICE S. FENNIMORE

     http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07175/796419-109.stm

189. A "joke gone bad"? said,

     July 30, 2007 at 6:32 pm

     http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/mostread/s_519659.html

190. sandskingo said,

     July 31, 2007 at 12:04 am

     I am offended by this facegroup website or whatever the hell it is… its ugly and stupid in the extreme. Yes, I believe that these kids were only being stupid… but, stupid s*** can be dangerous… In the words of the song, “Gimme Shelter” by the Rolling Stones… Rape, murder, its just a shot away… Love, sister, its just a kiss away…

     Racism is stupid. These dumbass kids were stupid to start this AAA site. Hopefully, they will have learned a lesson. Think before they act or speak again.

     But don’t be stupid yourselves. Don’t paint FC or Pittsburgh as being especially racist. The whole world is racist. I have lived in Asia for 23 years and as everyone here knows, Asians are extremely racist and xenophobic. And racism in Asia is institutionalized as well as present at the individual level.

     You’ve taught these dumb kids a lesson. Now pull back before you turn them into real racists.

191. Liann Sun said,

     July 31, 2007 at 4:23 am

     I am embarassed, angry, and hurt to hear that people I have been in the same classes as have found such degrading material humorous.

     I have created a new facebook group, Students Against “Anti-Asians Anonymous”.
     http://hs.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4050534795

     It’s global, so anybody can join.

192. Racism is not funny said,

     July 31, 2007 at 2:27 pm

     http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_519659.html

     http://www.pacificcitizen.org/content/2007/national/July20-stom-facebook.htm

     http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/13784091/detail.html

     http://www.wfmj.com/Global/story.asp?S=6860215

193. Female student of Fox Chapel said,

     July 31, 2007 at 3:52 pm

     The ignorant, immature Facebook group would have affected (hurt) significantly fewer people if such a big deal had not been made of it. Also, generalizing the whole of Fox Chapel High School by this one occurrence is insulting and ignorant. Although the stereotypes that the Facebook group posted were much more hurtful, grandiose, and ridiculous, one should realize that many people on this site are also stereotyping (but stereotyping the students of FC, not Asians). However, I do stress that the offense of the AAA group makers was far greater than that of angered people on this site.
     It would be best to relax Caucasian-Asian tensions rather than (as this site does) escalate them. Rather than post angry outcries against what Billy and the other group members did, perhaps knowledgeable people could post history and present articles and facts that refute the stereotypes listed on the Facebook group. Education is far more likely to solve problems than anger.

194. Emilio Aguinaldo said,

     July 31, 2007 at 6:43 pm

     Why does the onus of educating ignorant kids like Billy and crew, especially Brandon Elkins, fall on Asian America? If these kids are so remorseful and apologetic for their actions, doesn’t it behoove them to take the initiative to find out why they’re being stupid and racist? Other posters have posted resources, and the response has been “boo hoo, we have to read too much”, “we’ve already been ‘punished’”, “I haven’t read anything you’ve posted, I don’t care to.” In arguendo, here are some things for those who want to bother to edify themselves.

     Anti-Asian violence in U.S. history:

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Springs_Massacre

     http://opmanong.ssc.hawaii.edu/filipino/riots.html

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_violence_in_Washington

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Chinese_violence_in_Oregon

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_riot_of_1886

     http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ohq/107.3/nokes.html

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_victims_of_the_Rock_Springs_Massacre

     U.S. government limits immigration on basis of race/ethnicity:

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tydings-McDuffie_Act

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Chin

     Pearl Harbor: Our only mistake was stopping at two.
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

     Anti-Asian hate today:

     Fixing their (Asian Americans) eyes with boiling water and postage stamps!

     http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/2007/06/23/press-release-congressman-mike-honda-marks-25th-year-remembrance-of-vincent-chin-hate-crime/

     http://www.nypost.com/seven/07042007/news/regionalnews/race_hate_beating_in_chinatown_regionalnews_lorena_mongelli_and_erika_martinez.htm

     Next week, a tour inside the PETA Happy Funtime Processing Plant - free giblets for kids!

     http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/06/saline_police_say_teens_vandal.html

     http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk1NiZmZ2JlbDdmN3ZxZWVFRXl5NzE0ODM1MiZ5cmlyeTdmNzE3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTM=

     Japan admits to JFK’s assassination, prime minister’s response “haw haw we rill get yo momma next mitsubishi domo arigato!

     http://www.falloutcentral.com/news/2007/05/12/success-jeff-vandergrift-jv-dan-lay-elvis-canned-by-cbs/

     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,235842,00.html

195. to mark said,

     July 31, 2007 at 6:44 pm

     we dont live privledged because of our race. we live privledged because our parents worked hard in school.

     racism is the biggest scapegoat in america

196. visitor said,

     July 31, 2007 at 9:59 pm

     Can you then explain to me why the following fact is still happening? Are you implying that the non-whites don’t work as hard as your parents?

     http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0612/12/pzn.01.html

     … racism can be a huge factor in getting a job. Turns out, if you have a name like Emily o’Brien or Neil McCarthy, you’re much more likely to get a callback from a potential employer than if your name is Tamika Williams or Jamal Jackson.

     Those actual names were used in a study in 2001 and 2002 by the University of Chicago, and it found that white-sounding names got 50 percent more callbacks than black-sounding names.

197. to mark said,

     July 31, 2007 at 10:00 pm

     here is an example…michael vick was found with like 12 dead dogs in his backyard. he is in a lot of trouble with the nfl and the law, and i saw a headline on the news today asking if race had anything to do with it

     a guy is found with dead dogs in his backyard, but everyone is mad at him because he is black, right. if it were a white guy then it would be no big deal, right?

198. sandskingo said,

     July 31, 2007 at 11:02 pm

     visitor,

     Who told you that life was going to be fair all the time?

     Yes, racism sucks. Its vile. But, you kiddies are really coming off like a bunch of whinging crybabies. Racism exists all over the world, and whites are not the only group to practice racism. Try living in any Asian nation as an “outsider”, then come back and tell us about “white privilege” and how terribly oppressed you are.

     Honestly, you kids are clueless.

     And no, I am not arguing that racism against Asians is acceptable or should be tolerated. I’m just arguing for a bit of perspective. I don’t appreciate seeing terms like “mighty whitey”, “sexpat” and “white privilege” thrown around so carelessly and thoughtlessly. The notion that only whites can be or do practice racism is a racist notion.

199. Lindsay Cowher said,

     July 31, 2007 at 11:05 pm

     I don’t know how I got put on the “I think this is funny” side of this, because frankly I don’t. So typing an entire page to inform me of how much harm it has done isn’t going to alter my opinion that yes, I think it was a bad and hurtful thing that exploded and created much controversey; however, I am going to stand by what I said and that I know a lot of those kids and they aren’t “bad” and I don’t think they knew what was going to happen (which shouldn’t be an excuse at all.) And for that immature comment that was left “to Lindsay”, grow up. You’re pathetic.

     to the guy who just said that said,
     July 28, 2007 at 1:26 am

     ask lindsay if she ever said that any of this was funny. while your at it, ask her if she was one of the few people who said on the website something that was against them (”billy, your terrible”).

     ^ that sums up what I would have responded to that anyway…so thank you to whomever posted that.

     And Liann made a group for the issue, you all should check it out.

200. sandskingo said,

     July 31, 2007 at 11:07 pm

     mark,

     You’re sadly mistaken if you believe that Michale Vick’s race has anything to do with the outrage people feel and direct at his alleged actions.

     Your assertion illustrates your ignorance regarding reactions that animal rights advocates have to stories of animal abuse. A year ago there was a worldwide petition effort that ignited the passions of animal rights advocates and essentially resulted in causing the French Government to step in and stop the practice of using live stray dogs as shark bait. The French fishermen were not black.

     Stop being such a big girl’s blouse.

201. pittsburgh resident said,

     August 1, 2007 at 1:06 am

     “You’ve taught these dumb kids a lesson. Now pull back before you turn them into real racists.” I agree with that post. There is so much anger on this site. Don’t give the little as*es anymore reason to hate on Asians.

202. to visitor said,

     August 1, 2007 at 1:13 am

     ok, so you are saying that if jobs were “fair” then my dad would not be a doctor? he is only a doctor because he is white, and it has nothing to do with his hard work? i am incredibly grateful for what i have, and it is because of his hard work, not because he is white.

203. visitor said,

     August 1, 2007 at 1:44 am

     I’m not saying don’t be grateful for what you have specially when you got it from honest sweat (even by your parents)… and I’m not arguing that your dad turned out to be a Dr because he’s white not because of his hard work.

     My issue is, to be specific, why would non-white sounding names make a difference when applying for a job? The only conclusion is that race does matter in the kind of jobs, housing, even school you get and not get. And that’s my problem. And secondly, I’m very much distrubed when we’re being told that race does not matter anymore, that it’s the biggest scapegoat in America. It may be overblown in some cases, but the truth is race still has a lot to do with living in America.

204. visitor said,

     August 1, 2007 at 1:52 am

     To sandskingo: your response did not address my issues. Again, can you explain to me why just using an ethnic-sounding name make a difference whether you get a job or not?

     I’m against any racism regardless who perpetuates it or where it happens. Yes, it’s everywhere and they are happening everyday in your community. The question is what are you doing to make things right for those who suffered and still are suffering from racism, those who are not getting the job simply because his/her name is not the right sounding name?

205. sandskingo said,

     August 1, 2007 at 2:24 am

     visitor,

     Come over and live in Asia for a while… see how very racist Asians are to whites, blacks and other Asians. You complain about the US being so terribly racist… and there are racists in the US… but, compared to Asian nations, the US is progressive and tolerant.

     Its always fun watching each summer as a new boatload of ABCs and CBCs land in Asia to find their roots and learn about Asia… they are always in for a rude freaking awakening… you should hear them bitch and moan about how Asians here discriminate against them… boo hoo…

     visitor, I expect that you are a US citizen… is that right? How did you get citizenship? Naturalized? By birth? In any event, the US… big racist white America, granted citizenship to you or your parents or grandparents… how many white people do you see getting citizenship in Japan? China? Taiwan? Korea?

     Asian immigrants bitch about racist Australia… while they are obtaining Aussie citizenship… again, how many Asian nations will grant citizenship to whites or blacks?

     The entire concept of “overseas Chinese” is a racist concept that many ABCs and CBCs are happy to take advantage of when seeking business opportunities in China and Taiwan and Hong Kong. I never hear any complaints about the inherent anti-white and anti-black and anti-anyone who isn’t Chinese racism from you twats.

     If you don’t like racism, challenge it everywhere… otherwise your complaints are hollow at best, and racist at worst.

206. a former friend of billy said,

     August 1, 2007 at 5:29 am

     as a former friend of Billy I know this was no joke he is most the most sexist ,prejudice person I know, the remarks that he makes are the most cruel statements I have ever heard

207. sandskingo said,

     August 1, 2007 at 7:36 am

     Well, former friend of billy,

     We have no way of knowing whether you really are a former friend of billy’s, as you do not use your real name here.

     I’m not saying that i don’t think it possible that this lad was a bad egg… but, we really don’t know that you are who you say you are or whether your allegations are true.

     If what you say is true, then I hope that billy has been shamed by this incident into thinking about his terrible racist deeds.

     He has demonstrated shame, and IMO that is a good sign. It takes abasically good person to feel shame for bad behavior. I say let’s give billy a chance now to mend his thinking and his ways.

     Fortunately, billy didn’t physically harm anyone. Had he done so, I would be much less forgiving. But, as far as I know, his acts are limited to a stupid stunt… names and words, but no sticks or stones.

     If he continues to domonstrate racist and or hateful, bigoted behavior, then he should be exposed as a hateful racist bigoted phoney. But, I think now, at this point in time, he should be given a chance to reflect on his behavior and make changes.

     It will be difficult for him to do so if people don’t let him make an attempt.

     I dare assert that every person posting on this site has at one time or more held a racist thought and or committed a racist act or spoken a racist word. Should we all be held in contempt forever?

     We are all human. The kid was wrong. He made a mistake. If he’s given the opportunity, I would guess that he very well might change his ways for the better.

208. visitor said,

     August 1, 2007 at 2:54 pm

     Racism and all forms of “isms”, are, at its core, a matter of the heart. And it would take much more than a couple of tolerance meetings to undo them.

     Lindsay Cowher: I can well relate to what you are trying to say. But as you well know by now, the primary issue has opened a can of worms. Thus, expect folks from all sorts of backgrounds to post whatever are on their minds (which is really a good thing). However, you (plural) cannot simply tell anyone to shut up or back off because the postings brought forth more and bigger issues than AAA’s. And I won’t blame those responding to those “new” issues. I would rather have a shouting match here than out there in real world, with stick and stones. When the smoke clears, it will be evident which views are worth considering. That will take time.

     Yes racism is everywhere and life is not fair. But do we all just give up and stop doing something to fight it? Racism will not go away specially when folks deny it even exists and simply brush it off as “no big deal”, as “biggest scapegoat”, and telling the offended folks to stop whining about it.

209. sandskingo said,

     August 1, 2007 at 3:15 pm

     visitor,

     No, we do not remain silent in the face of racism. Not at all.

     However, we maintain perspective and balance. We allow for shame and reflection… and we do not pile on when reflection is taking place.

     Response should always be measured.

     And when an Asian man or woman in China or in Taiwan or in Korea or in Japan says something or does something horribly or outrageously racist against whites or blacks or other Asians, we do not use terms that generalize and include all Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans or Japanese as racist pigs and oppressors. When a white kid in the US says some racist garbage, we do not respond with terms such as “whiteboy”, “mighty whitey”, white privilege” and “sexpats” and “Asian fetishists”…

     As Sly and the Family Stone sang years ago… “don’t call me ‘n—-r’, whitey, don’t call me ‘whitey’, n—-r”… Namecalling escalates and incites hate… it doesn’t encourage rational discourse or understanding.

210. visitor said,

     August 1, 2007 at 4:08 pm

     sandskingo: I agree 100% with your posting above.

211. bystander said,

     August 1, 2007 at 4:27 pm

     “Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh.”

     Sounds familiar?

212. julia n. said,

     August 2, 2007 at 2:16 am

     As an Asian American citizen, I would have to say that when I found out about this, I was shocked to say the least. People I knew, that I saw at school, who shared a classroom with me, making crude jokes about people of my background?

     I know that these people aren’t cruel, and some of them are even nice, but what they did is still unacceptable. Saying, “I’m sorry, it was just a joke,” or, “I didn’t know what I was clicking,” isn’t going to undo what you did. Be conscious of your actions. But, the past is past, and I don’t blame them personally.

     C’mon guys, what has history taught us here? Minorities and people from different countries have be subjected to ridicule and even violence from others for hundreds of years, and it’s unnerving to think that it hasn’t stopped, even in the 21st century. How do you know what it was like to be a black slave? You may think, “Wow, it must have sucked a lot to be whipped,” but, do you really know what it was like? So don’t go saying, “Oh, it wasn’t that big of a deal, it wasn’t that bad anyway.” Take it from the viewpoint of an Asian. You can’t really understand what it’s like to see this kind of thing up on the internet unless you are one. No, it was pretty bad. It did hurt a lot of people. Asian American students and families as a matter of fact. Members of your community. Remember that we all came from different backgrounds at some point in time.

     And also, if you hate Indians (who, in fact, are also Asians) and other Asians taking your spots in college, stop complaining, and work hard for your spot. Claim that spot. Make it yours, not by hate, but by your work and your achievements. Beat them academically to the spot, instead of sitting and complaining about a college that maybe wouldn’t even have accepted you despite the Indians and Asians.

213. exholt said,

     August 2, 2007 at 5:34 pm

     sandskingo,

     Strange….I am an ABC and I was never subjected to the crap you said other ABCs and CBCs were subjected to during my time in China and Taiwan. If anything, I was treated as “one of the boys” to the point many Chinese/Taiwanese felt comfortable telling me about the atrocious idiotic behavior of many Western expats and ABC/CBCs. Their accounts make sense as I’ve witnessed some of that behavior firsthand while in-country and had it confirmed by other Western expats/ABCs/CBCs who felt ashamed that their fellows would behave so poorly. In short, much of the prejudice against Western expats and ABC/CBCs is mainly based on the perception of their behaving badly and being culturally insensitive…an understandable perception considering what I’ve seen in-country and heard from others.

     You should also understand that unlike many other nations, the US and Canada have long promoted themselves as free pluralistic heterogeneous societies where all citizens were supposedly equal under the law. They’ve done this to a far greater extent than most other societies for a longer period of time. Thus, it is understandable why the US and Canada are often take to task while they fall short of this goal. I doubt most Asian countries have ever promoted themselves as free pluralistic heterogeneous societies to nearly the same extent as the US or Canada.

     If a society is going to publicly promote their adherence to standards they set for themselves and others, they should expect to be called out when they themselves fall short of them.

214. Joe said,

     August 2, 2007 at 6:21 pm

     All I gotta say is… this kid who started the group thought it was a joke, but the joke is now on HIM! There’s no way he’s getting away with this and we’ve ruined his life! So.. congrats to him! He sure did get recognition for it! HAHAHAHA!

215. disgusted said,

     August 2, 2007 at 7:36 pm

     Sorry, if only those words alone were enough. When a person spits in your face, is it enough for them to simply say they are sorry? Teacher, Billy, or any of you, would that be enough in your eyes? What if that person kept spitting in your face until somebody with authority told them to stop, and then they apologized? Clearly that would not be enough for most rational people. And this is not simply in the privacy of a one on one exchange. This was in a public domain on the Internet. Sorry is not enough in this case. Those kids do deserve some punishment, but that is not enough. I am willing to give anybody the benefit of the doubt. However, when they knowingly participate in an action that is clearly wrong, they have lost my respect and must earn it back. These kids lost the respect of their peers and society. They have to earn it back with their actions. Simply letting them off the hook with a simple apology teaches them nothing. They have to earn that respect back. Until they do, I do not feel it is wrong to continue to recognize them as the biased individuals that they are. When we allow even the little things to pass, we are simply greasing the wheels for larger and more horrendous actions to propagate.

216. life is not fair said,

     August 2, 2007 at 8:50 pm

     Joe: Life’s not fair, isn’t?

     I don’t see how Billy’s life is now ruined when the majority consider the postings here loathsome? At the end of the day, everything will be soon forgotten and similar incident will happen again (only the details and names will be different), accompanied by similar responses. That’s the unfortunate fact.

217. Joanne said,

     August 3, 2007 at 2:53 am

     Take this story to the local news of the city and include the damn letters from the school officials. Enought bad press of the school and people pressuring the school board and the principal will make them take immediate action. It makes me sick reading the school officials not showing any “immediate action”. There was not one thing indicating that the school officials will “notify the parents” of these students. Has this Anti-Asian Facebook sent to the local news of that city? Or has the Local news got wind of this situation?
     Let me know, because I don’t mind doing myself to get those evil kids and their crappy parents in trouble!

218. sandskingo said,

     August 3, 2007 at 4:19 am

     Joanne,

     Why not read the story and digest the facts before posting in ignorance?

219. appalled said,

     August 3, 2007 at 3:28 pm

     sandskingo-
     you posted:
     “And when an Asian man or woman in China or in Taiwan or in Korea or in Japan says something or does something horribly or outrageously racist against whites or blacks or other Asians, we do not use terms that generalize and include all Chinese, Taiwanese, Koreans or Japanese as racist pigs and oppressors”
     and yet earlier you also posted:
     “Come over and live in Asia for a while… see how very racist Asians are to whites, blacks and other Asians. You complain about the US being so terribly racist… and there are racists in the US… but, compared to Asian nations, the US is progressive and tolerant.”

     Are you not generalizing that all “asian nations” are less progressive and tolerant based on your very limited experiences in asia? I don’t care how many years you lived in “Asia”. Asia is a big place with many people. Your experiences are not the norm.

220. appalled said,

     August 3, 2007 at 3:39 pm

     also:
     sandskingo posted -
     “. The whole world is racist. I have lived in Asia for 23 years and as everyone here knows, Asians are extremely racist and xenophobic. And racism in Asia is institutionalized as well as present at the individual level.”

     Is that a fact? where are your sources? Is that statement not contrary to the point you are furtively trying to make? you speak of the dangers of mass judgement and preach not generalizing, ie “paint FC or Pittsburgh as being especially racist.”

221. sandskingo said,

     August 3, 2007 at 11:22 pm

     appalled,

     Yes, of course. Please note that in my earlier post I was using a shock tactic… turning the mirror on those who generalize, so to speak. That is why subsequently I clarified and explained that in fact it is generally not a good thing to generalize.

     Cheers to you for spotting the apparent inconsistency.

     However, my generalization regardin Asian nations is spot on. Asia may be a big place, but my statement that Asian nations are generally not as tolerant or progressive stands… it isn’t an opinion based on my experience… Racism is institutionalized in nearly all Asian nations… don’t take my word for it… look at the immigration and residency laws and the labor laws and how migrant workers are dealt with. If you think migrant workers in the US have it bad, you should see the poor sods over here.

     If you are not aware of what happens over here, then educate yourself before you make silly comments.

222. appalled said,

     August 4, 2007 at 12:05 am

     lol. “it is generally not a good thing to generalize”

     you need to stop using broad sweeping strokes in painting your picture of a racist asia. please educate me than sandskingo. give me facts. additionally, a country’s immigration and residency laws do not reflect the racist nature of the government.

     please educate YOURself before you make stupid comments.

223. humpers said,

     August 4, 2007 at 3:41 am

     i think y’all should take the alleged racism in asia to the podcasting from shanghai thread instead of this one about the FC idiots.

     i generally avoid feeding trolls like sandyboy here, but i’ll reply on that shanghai thread about my experiences in china.

224. sandskingo said,

     August 4, 2007 at 6:07 am

     appalled,

     You don’t think a country’s immigration and residency laws reflect the racist nature of the government?

     So, I guess you have no problem with the now repealed Exclusion Act previously adopted by the US? That wasn’t a racist piece of legislation?

     Gimme a break, child.

     And I stand by my comments and remarks… Asia is generally a far more racist place than is the US.

     Maybe you need to come over here and live for a while to learn about the world?

225. sandskingo said,

     August 4, 2007 at 6:10 am

     humpers,

     Why shouldn’t we discuss AZN racism here? In this thread, there have been quite a allegations of white racism and white privilede, etc…

     I’m just shining a light for those of you in the dark who think the US is such a racist place. You’re all clueless.

     Come over to Asia and learn about racism on a grand scale.

226. asiancontinent said,

     August 4, 2007 at 9:23 am

     one problem: asia is a huge continent with lots of countries with very diverse cultural, historical and political settings… on the other hand, USA is a single country in a large american continent … Should you then be more specific, say North Korea vs USA?

227. sandskingo said,

     August 4, 2007 at 10:16 am

     asiancontinent,

     No kidding? Asia is a big continent? Good thing we have you here to explain things.

     Doesn’t matter… I challenge you to find any nation in Asia that is as progressive and tolerant as the US in terms of racism, racist immigration and residency policies, and general attitudes regarding people of different races.

     Yeah… OK, tell us about how progressive and tolerant N. Korea is compared to the US in terms of racism, racist immigration and residency policies, and general attitudes regarding people of different races.

     How many black and white people are citizens and or residents of N. Korea?

228. nonidarian sinaman said,

     August 4, 2007 at 2:30 pm

     SAY NO TO Yellow

     THAT’S CREAM

229. nonidarian sinaman said,

     August 4, 2007 at 2:34 pm

     Billy Hagberg (Fox Chapel Area High School)←jew….
     Winston McCarty (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Anders Bergren (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Aaron Cichowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Adam Borowski (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Brandon Elkins (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Michael Paradise (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Kevin McKamish (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Greg Vaisleib (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Sam Caushaj (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Nick Horne (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Brian Skura (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Alec Christie (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Tom Stewart (Fox Chapel Area High School)
     Nicholas Lombardi (Fox Chapel Area High School)←http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=26192750　
     Nick Bacco (Fox Chapel Area High School) ←　pu BACCO lol

230. mark chang said,

     August 4, 2007 at 7:20 pm

     you want this to be taken to the news, so more asians can be hurt by hearing about this form of racism? good plan

231. mark chang said,

     August 4, 2007 at 8:21 pm

     this comment is towards joanne

232. appalled said,

     August 5, 2007 at 12:47 am

     sandskingo,
     curious. where in asia do you reside? and i agree with “asiancontinent” there are MANY diff countries and cultures in asia where it is IMPOSSIBLE to generalize. don’t you follow your own logic???? or is it too jumbled?

     also the country in asia you are referring to DOES matter.
     whether a country’s immigration and residency laws reflects the racist nature of the government is debateable since the term “racist” is too broad a term to be used to GENERALIZE a governments vast laws. ALSO, you can not generalize and say that the people of “asia” are racist just because their government has harsh immigration laws. for example, the chinese government is last i heard NOT a democracy. the people of china do not vote. they do not represent the government. the views of a few people in power in china do not represent the views of asian people in general.

233. appalled said,

     August 5, 2007 at 1:05 am

     also you don’t fight racism by citing evidence of other racism. just because this is a forum for discussing a specific incident where the victims happened to be asian and the perps white, does not mean that the readers of this forum don’t understand that racism exists elsewhere.

     what is the point in intentionally pointing that out? this is the classic “but he does it too mommy” tact.

     useless and counterproductive.

234. sandskingo said,

     August 5, 2007 at 1:22 am

     appalled,

     You just don’t get it, do you?

     I have lived in different cities in China and Taiwan and also Hong Kong for over 23 years now.

     The racism against whites and blacks and other Asians exists and is felt each and every day.

     It is institutionalized at the government level and is ubiquitous on the street level.

     Sure, there are a few individual Asians who are not racist for the most part. But, by and large (in general) your average on the street Chinese (and other Asian) believes that black people are bad and that white people are deviant or superior or inferior or sexually perverted, etc…, etc… as a function of race. That is the definition of “racism”.

     If you cannot get your little head around the possibility that… gasp… Asians can be and are incredibly racist to a great extent, then I invite you to come live in Asia. Pick a nation… it doesn’t need to be a Chinese nation… Korea would knock your socks off… Japan is extremely racist… India… heck, they still caste themselves…. how do you think they feel about foreigners?

     Or, just remain clueless… I’ve heard that ignorance is bliss… I wouldn’t blame you for wanting to remain in a state of bliss.

235. appalled said,

     August 5, 2007 at 2:59 am

     okay. it is obvious you are arguing for the sake of. i think your ignorance is apparent to most here. there is not need for me to further go tete a tete with you here. however, i must clarify and remind you that my point has nothing to do with racism in asia , but involves you berating forum readers for generalizing racism among whites in america while you do the very same in asia. as i mentioned earlier, racism, either obvious or not, occurs everywhere. the solution is not to point to other countries as a comparison.

236. what a guy said,

     August 5, 2007 at 3:02 am

     sandskingo, thank you for helping in everyones efforts to prove that there is other racism besides for a few dumb high school kids. every time anyone has tried the response has been “you are just trying to deflect the attention away from your races racist acts”. a lot of people who have posted here really do have a certain smugness about them, telling everyone that they understand the world perfectly and its just that we dont get it, we are the only racist ones

237. yeah so. said,

     August 5, 2007 at 4:48 pm

     sandskingo goes far and beyond just trying to prove that racism occurs elsewhere.

238. sandskingo said,

     August 5, 2007 at 6:29 pm

     yeah so,

     No, I do not go far and beyond just trying to prove that racism occurs elsewhere.

     Actually, I don’t prove anything. You’d need to come over to Asia to see for yourself that some whites in the US are not the only people who can be racists.

     I’m only pointing out that some people here are big crybabies, and that sometimes we need to stop throwing racist insults that cover an entire group or even just a substantial portion of a group when confronted by isolated racist behavior.

     As I’ve stated repeatedly, I know that there is some racism in the US. I’d have to be completely blind, deaf and dumb not to realize that. But, after having lived in Asia for more than 23 years, and after having witnessed Asian racism directed at whites, blacks and other Asians, it gets tedious hearing relatively privileged Asian-Americans berate the US and generalize about white racism… there was even one dimwit who moaned that only whites can be racists.

     That nonsense cries out for a response. I have responded accordingly.

239. HUMPY SUPPORTER said,

     August 6, 2007 at 2:33 pm

     I SUPPORT HUMPY!!!!!

240. azn PrYdE! said,

     August 7, 2007 at 4:29 am

     so a racist like sandyKKK can get away with racist comments against asians and state lies and propaganda against asians. but when somebody’s asian try to post something in defense of asians, the apologist admins of this website deletes them?

     what a bunch of hop-sing losers the AM admins are!

241. sam said,

     August 8, 2007 at 11:55 pm

     america is not what it used to be. whites are now the minority. anything said coming the mouth of a white person becomes a giant deal, yet so called “minorities” stereotype and make racial comments/acts towards whites all the time, but that is fair because whites are the majority, right? it makes it ok for black people to be racist towards whites because their ancestors were slaves, right? it makes it ok for asians to make comments about whites because whites are the majority and they “just dont get it”. everything is becoming ridiculous, and this was very offensive that it happened but there is freedom of speech (yes, i know that this was not the good freedom of speech and i dont condone it) but nonetheless it is freedom of speech. all these crazy punishments that some people are thinking of just are not realistic and do not make sense. no physical harm was done, some asians just got their feelings hurt. if this really is so terrible that it should go to the news and stuff, then i really guess i do just not get it. terrible things happen everyday, and this is so bad it deserves to be on the news? i do understand that a lot of peoples feelings got hurt, but seriously, sticks and stones. everyone deals with this stuff everyday. it has gotten to the point that its proven that if you are from a so called “minority” it is easier to get into college, regardless of your resume. think about what is really important in life, and i think you may realize pretty soon that a few high school kids trying to be funny and in the process hurting someones feelings does not happen to be one of those things. people get their feelings hurt everyday in high school because they arent pretty or skinny enough, or a million other reasons. i dont see all those things being on the news.

     sticks and stones

242. sandskingo said,

     August 9, 2007 at 9:21 am

     azn pryde,

     What? Are you some sort of racist pig? What’s with this Pride crap? Is that like those morons marching around crying about white pride?

     What’s the difference? A bunch of idiots seeking identity and pride through assocition with thier particular race… seems terribly racist, IMO.

243. exholt said,

     August 9, 2007 at 11:32 pm

     sandskingo,

     I see you have not bothered to respond to my comments.

     One thing you keep forgetting is that the US and Canada have promoted themselves as nations where all citizens have the right to fair and equitable treatment far longer than most other nations. If a country is going to proclaim itself to stand for certain ideals, it should not be surprised when it is called out for falling short of them.

     Moreover, the tone of your comments remind me of the sort of obnoxious Western expats my Chinese hosts and Western expat friends would often complain about.

244. azn PrYdE! said,

     August 10, 2007 at 3:30 pm

     azn pride is to uplift an oppressed people; white pride is to oppress others — which sandyKKK likes to distort and twist his agendas in order to make the oppresed even more disfranchised.

245. sam said,

     August 13, 2007 at 1:34 am

     thats just dumb

246. A. said,

     August 14, 2007 at 1:49 am

     Sam - how is this.

     What you think is happening to you right now has been what has happened to Blacks, Asians, Hispanics and Native Americans over a course of CENTURIES.

     Leaves a bad taste in your mouth, doesn’t it?

     As for those kids - what would merit them would be to be punched in the face by an asian kid. I’m sick of seeing these kids act like they didn’t know what they were doing. They’re bigots. Plain and simple. They’re only sorry because they got caught.

247. sam said,

     August 15, 2007 at 1:09 am

     that’s just dumb

248. kel said,

     August 15, 2007 at 3:12 am

     Wow…we should just all calm down. Personally, I really don’t think racism should exist. We are all of ONE race and that is the HUMAN race, and we all have the same ancestors. The terminology of racist/racism/etc…shouldn’t even be used. Because once we started to use these words and provide sub-catergories, we’ve become the words. And maybe these “whiteboys” (not saying it “racially”) were joking. Just give it a break!!! Not everyone is perfect. I mean it’s not only the “white” people who provide “racial” remarks everyday. “Blacks and yellows” do it too. Why don’t we just forgive each other and let this go??? I mean racism does hurt but no one has to take it personally and it happens everyday. The people who created the group wasn’t meant to hurt anyone or intended any harm. So just forgive! =]

249. haha said,

     August 15, 2007 at 4:15 pm

     kel,
     so innocent, so naive.

250. sam said,

     August 16, 2007 at 2:10 am

     THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!

251. sam said,

     August 16, 2007 at 2:11 am

     we hard working folk have been working hard for decades to get our pay up to a reasonable level, and now these people from the future keep coming in and taking our jobs.

     they took our jobs

252. kel said,

     August 16, 2007 at 3:04 am

     How did the people from the future steal our jobs?

253. S.C. said,

     August 16, 2007 at 2:10 pm

     I am an Asian girl and a rising senior at FC. Humpy, I take serious offense at your ludicrous July 5th 1:33 am comments. I am actually friends with Nick Bacco and Adam Borowski and am in no way brainwashed by American pop culture. So yes, they do have “actual friends”. Yes, they do actually have Asian friends. And as such, I can assure you, they are in no way racist.

     In addition, your definition of their “SOWs” friends is revolting. I do not appreciate being insulted just because my friends made a stupid mistake. I speak Chinese and have learned Chinese history. I understand and appreciate Asian culture with all its holidays, customs, etc.

     How dare you insinuate that I have lost my culture and heritage! And yes, I do believe that your comment was directed at me, who is construed by you as an imaginary Caucasian-wannabe.

254. aaa said,

     August 16, 2007 at 7:17 pm

     Who are “they”, who took your job?

     Companies care most of all for the bottom line… not race, not nationalities, not politics, not country… The last time I check, the difference in compensation between CEOs and regular folks, like you and me, are ever growing in the US.

     Conclusion: The big boss care most of all with his bottom line. And, guess who are the big bosses in American companies? White men! They are the one who decided that it is cheaper to close your plant here in the US and send it to China. They are the ones who decided to send your work to India. They are the one who decided to send people from over there to here, so they can be trained for awhile, and later on, go home and do your work over there.

     On the medical field, on the other hand, where you can’t send sick patient overseas (although that seems to be happening somewhat), there is chronic need for medical staff specially nurses. But there’s not enough Americans who can fill the job. So, these “white” bosses are the one who decided to hire folks from India, China, Philippines, and so on.

255. kel said,

     August 18, 2007 at 5:41 pm

     Very good point there, aaa.

256. Sam B. said,

     August 20, 2007 at 9:38 pm

     So, there is a facebook group that was started in response to the AAA facebook group, called Students Against Anti-Asians Anonymous. I posted this one their discussion board, and thought that I should just repost it here.

     Background for people outside the Fox Chapel Community: I graduated in 2007 from Fox Chapel, and I feel that I am anti-racist, but also understanding and forgiving. Though I am white, I have experience with being a minority due to my sexual orientation. Never during my time at Fox Chapel did I feel discriminated against. I started a Gay Straight Alliance. The school has a VERY active Model UN club, International Club, and Student Action for Global Awareness club. The faculty created a tolerance committee, and has been working to improve the relationships between members of different social classes, races, and high school clicks.

     _______________________________________________________

     I believe the students involved in the AAA facebook group when they say that they were simply joking. I know that it is easy to join silly facebook groups and think nothing of it. However, there are still lessons to be learned from this incident: how we should treat each other with respect, be sensitive of racial differences, and conduct ourselves appropriately on the internet.

     On minority sensitivity:

     My best friend, is from China. Most of you probably know that I am gay. It was always fun for me to tease her about being the “stereotypical Asian”… being amazing at the piano, having a sky high GPA, near perfect SAT scores. She could tease me back about my CLEARLY homosexual dancing, wearing tight pants, being boy crazy. Nevertheless, she was the co-president of the Fox Chapel Gay Straight Alliance, and I am a big fan of Korean poetry, Buddhism, and I am strongly considering taking an Asian language in college so that I can study abroad in Asia.

     We both recognized appropriate limits concerning the topics that we joked about. For example, AIDS is not an appropriate topic to joke with gay people about. Any statement that communicates dislike or hatred is also inappropriate… I found ALex Irvin’s comment to be the most offensive “I really do hate asians… They all need to go back to where they came from”… but I also know that he does not go to Fox Chapel, and does not specifically concern our community.

     On internet conduct:

     This joking between my bf and I was appropriate because it was face-to-face, and between two friends. When you talk to someone in person, you can show them with your body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions that you are only joking.

     One of the common defenses in situations such as this is that “I was just joking” and “you are taking my words out of context.” Well, people need to keep in mind that to people on the internet that do not know you or go to your school have no way of knowing what the context is. They do not know that in real life, you have Asian friends (which was given as evidence by members of the AAA group that they had no serious racial stereotypes). Strangers on the internet also have no way of knowing that Fox Chapel is a school with a student body that is, comparatively speaking, quite tolerant of diversity. So, based on the information that was provided, the “over-reaction” was quite appropriate.

     If you think that such a context is required, you should think seriously about whether or not it should be posted on the internet, where strangers can look at it an misinterpret it. I think this happened in both directions… with Alex Irvin interpreting it to be a serious anti-Asian hate group, and fallout central making it into a bigger deal than it should have been.

     And now, to relate this to a movie that we have probably all seen: Mean Girls.

     [reading a printed page from the Burn Book]
     Damian: Janis Ian - Dyke.
     Janis: Oh, that’s original.
     [reading about himself]
     Damian: “Too gay to function?”
     Janis: Hey, that’s only ok when I say it.

     Obvious connection… joking around with one of your Asian friends = okay. Starting a facebook group with more offensive material, that strangers can see and misinterpret = not appropriate.

     Before I close, I would like to reiterate that I understand that it is easy to join silly facebook groups and think nothing of it. But, I also do not want to trivialize the emotions felt by a minority when they feel that they have been the subject of prejudice or discrimination.

     I’d also like to share one of my favorite quotes regarding tolerance / the acceptance of diversity.

     When you visualized a man or woman carefully, you could always begin to feel pity—that was a quality God’s image carried with it. When you saw the lines at the corners of the eyes, the shape of the mouth, how the hair grew, it was impossible to hate. Hate was just a failure of the imagination. -Graham Greene

     I also apologize in advance if I have any of the details wrong, or if I have offended anyone. I have tried my best not to, and if I have, attribute it to my lack of writing ability, because I truly hold no ill will for anyone at Fox Chapel.

     If you disagree with me, people phrase your disagreement in a respectful manner. You will certainly convince more people of your ideas if you present them respectfully.

257. humpys gay said,

     August 20, 2007 at 10:12 pm

     nice, yet another person realizes how stupid humpy is

258. g said,

     August 21, 2007 at 3:34 pm

     Stephens said the district received no complaints from Asian-American students about the incidents. Several families of Asian-American Fox Chapel students contacted by phone said they had not heard of the Facebook group.

     this is from an article on this. does it not seem wrong to anyone else that this is being spread and more people who “had not heard of the facebook group” are being told? does it not seem like you shouldnt be going around telling people something that will hurt their feelings or make them feel discriminated against? it seems to me that if your intentions were to do what truly is in the best interest of Asian-Americans, then you would not tell every one that you know about it and just bring them into something that they would be much happier to go on not knowing about it

259. ignorance is bliss said,

     August 21, 2007 at 6:17 pm

     ignorance is bliss… so go and continue the back biting… I wonder what happens if the news media stop reporting the bad news and simply focus on the good ones.

260. g said,

     August 22, 2007 at 3:53 am

     so you think it was a good idea for every asian person in the district to be called and notified about this?

261. ignorance is bliss said,

     August 22, 2007 at 1:03 pm

     A normal person would probably tell their friends and family about it, over the phone, by email, blog, etc. Is there someone who actually had the time and the obsession to make phone calls to each and every Asian person at FC area?

     Anyway, once a news item is out there, who knows who will pick it up, make a spin out of it, make use of it to advance their agenda, etc… The sad thing is that the truth gets obscured and distorted, and that the original issue is turned around against the target of AAA. I see that happening here already.

262. exholt said,

     August 29, 2007 at 1:37 am

     g,

     I don’t know about you, but I’m of the opinion that hiding problems for the sake of “preventing hurt feelings” is ultimately counterproductive. Worse, it often compounds the hurt feelings and anger once the problem becomes too big to ignore and/or it suddenly gets blown into the open.

     Not too long ago, a group of university admins at a Michigan based state university were found to use similar lines of reasoning to not report that a felonious crime took place on campus. Not only did their actions resulted in much anger from the campus community who felt critical info on campus crime was kept from them, it also made people feel even less secure about campus safety as they also cannot trust the university admins who were dishonest in concealing information they should have divulged to the public.

263. abkd said,

     September 5, 2007 at 8:08 pm

     It’s a common observation that “Discussion threads get sidetracked into irrelevant chat or flame wars. Solution: Many attempted, implemented by Dkos and Slashdot and others, mostly involving the principle that the cure for bad information is not just more information, but metainformation. Up-rating and down-rating are powerful metainformational tool” [Michael Swaine]

     Will Fallout Central adopt such tool? Plus, thread tracking…

264. Reasonable Human Being said,

     September 18, 2007 at 5:05 am

     Blogs are the most detrimental failure in the history of human communication. This is sickening, the act, the response, every reaction to every stupid post. Exchange of ideas for the weak and underdeveloped mind is what this is. I am victim of the urge to post, but not to tell you which side I’m on, but to recommend that you all just stop posting right now. Please.

265. Test said,

     October 4, 2007 at 12:48 pm

     Hello

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266. CandyShopGirl said,

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270. XRumakTheBest said,

     November 25, 2007 at 12:10 pm

     XRumer Platinum Edition is the best tool for advertisement!
     It’s have CAPTCHA recognizer, email verificator, and a lot of other functions…

     But. I forgot link to it

     Can you give me link to the xrumer description? screenshots, etc.

     Thank you

271. Soorotdam said,

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272. aABeckerkoo said,

     December 22, 2007 at 6:07 pm

     Hi

     Just stopping in to say hi to y’all as a new member.

     Aaron

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